Cedar ramrod

[spudnut]

Order a couple good ones from Track of the wolf,It shouldnt cost too much for what your gonna get,Soak them in lynseed oil ,It doesnt stink as bad a kerosene,I like the smell of lynseed on wood...Mark

 

[Flintfan69]

Do you have Ash available to you? Many European (well...at least British) guns used Ash for ramrods. It is a wonderful wood to use for ramrods, infact I would favor it to hickory. It is not as common on American made guns because of our long history of using hickory, but it would make a beautiful ramrod if it is available to you.

 

[Wehrmacht]

OK, here we go. Wood tech and Dendrology 101. Class, pay attention because we're having a pop quiz tomorrow :grin:

As it usually does, common names are clouding the issue here because what is called poplar, for example, in the Lake States and upper Mid-West is not the same tree in the Southeast or elsewhere. To clear this up a little I'll identify the trees/wood that we're talking about by scientific names. Also I'll list the one engineering factor of wood that I think is most important in comparing woods used for ramrods. That's Shear Factor. Or,how many pounds per square inch the wood will stand before it seperates along the grain.

Common name...Poplar (in the Upper Mid-West and Lake States)
Latin name...Poplus (several species,but unimportant)
Shear Strength...500 psi (psi=pounds per square inch)

Common name...Yellow Poplar (Eastern USA)
Latin name...Liriodendron tulipfera
Shear Strength...790 psi

Common name...Port Orford Cedar
Latin name...Chamaecyparis lawsoniana
Shear Strength...840 psi

Common name...Green Ash (somebody mentioned this.Several species,all comparable).
Latin name...Fraxinus pennsylvanica
Shear strength...1,260 psi :bow:

Common name...Hickory. There are about 13 species of hickory in the States.Shagbark is probably best known,and is the strongest in shear strength.
Latin name...Carya ovata
Shear strength...2,430 psi :bow:
Pecan (yes,pecan nuts) is the weakest of the hickories with a psi of 1,240 or about the same as ash.

So there you have it. If I am correct in thinking that shear along the grain is the most important strength factor, then the hickories are the best. We've always known that anyhow! Port Orford Cedar will probably get by for a while....maybe long enough to round up a good hickory riving from Track,or Wayne Dunlap, or Freddie Harrison!

Then just out of curosity (is that spelling correct?) I dug a little deeper and looked at imported tropical hardwoods,ie Ramin, Gonystylus bancanus. This stuff has a shear factor of 6,900 psi :shocked2:. And another one...Sapele, 15,000+ psi :shocked2: :shocked2:. I don't know much about tropical hardwoods, but some of these are awesomely strong and heavy. Some years ago I was scheduled to go to Ghana West Africa and set up a sawmill operation. Some of the sample lumber that was sent to me was as heavy as an equal volume of steel! Maybe we ought to look at some of these for ramrods....but then, it wouldn't be period correct :thumbsup:

 

[armymedic.2]

i did use el cheapo dowel, which is ramin wood to replace the one that came with my blue ridge which snapped aftre a few sessions. seems to be holding up great after hunting 5-6 times and a few range sessions. it is also my cleaning rod. no ill effects yet

 

[Zonie]

If anyones interested, if you bend the ramrod when you are loading, you are introducing 'Horizontal Shear Stress' into the wood.
The values for Horizontal Shear Stress in wood is only about 1/10 of the values given by der Forster. Although it is not exactly 1/10 of the Shear Factor, it is surprisingly close resulting in the Port Orford Cedar's 840 PSI Shear Stress becoming around 80 PSI Horizontal Stress.

Although my information about the mechanical properties of wood is limited, it indicates that oak is about 30% stronger than Cedar so, given the choice between Cedar and Oak, my choice would be Oak.
zonie

 

[RedFeather]

Didn't mean to imply that cedar and poplar were one, just poor grammar. IIRC, Andora is on the border of Spain and France. Anyone around there shoot BP? I know it's big in Europe. Maybe you could check some of the continental forums for sources of native wood ramrods? Guess I'm lucky here in Virginia as I have a nice big Tulip Poplar and a Shagbark Hickory in the back yard. {Won't be cutting them up for ramrods, though.}

Some of the exotic hardwoods from the tropics can be difficult to work with. Have seen warning about one or two of the South American woods that the saw dust can be toxic and you have to use special handling precautions. If you want some really hard wood try Ironwood (Lignum Vitae?) from Jamaica. The US Navy certified it as a replacement for steel rollers at one time.

 

[gerardus]

I see that you are posting from Andorra. Can you give us some idea of what type of wood is available there?

Mainly pine, fir & birch. Poplar, ash, walnut, hazel and oak also, but in less quantities.

Regards,

Gerard.

 

[gerardus]

Do you have Ash available to you? Many European (well...at least British) guns used Ash for ramrods. It is a wonderful wood to use for ramrods, infact I would favor it to hickory. It is not as common on American made guns because of our long history of using hickory, but it would make a beautiful ramrod if it is available to you.

It took me some time to get the catalan name, but yes, there i ash here, but exclusively in private land (I think leaves where used as a food complement for animals way back) so it taboo.

Regards,

Gerard.

 

[kayja]

there are many kinds of ceder, all good for some things, some good for nothing.
Western red ceder
white ceder
then there is an Eastern red ceder that is grown in swamps in central NYS and farmers used it for fence posts, that would be the ceder you want, it is tough and when you planted a fence post, it was good for 30 yrs.

 

[Flintfan69]

IMHO I'm not sure shear strength is the most important factor in determining the durability of a ramrod. By the numbers previous listed Ramin has a shear strength 3X that of hickory. From personal experience a Ramin rod has no where near the durability of hickory (Ramin is offered from a couple well know suppliers). To test this, just take a ramin and hickory rod, side by side, and bend. The Ramin rod will break with about half the amount of stress compared to that of hickory. I think the best test of any rod would be to test the amount of compression and elongation that a rod can withstand. These stresses will be applied to the rod at the same time (but in unequal amounts) when a rod is in use. One last thing, of all the woods we have been discussing, what are wooden baseball bats made from I know it's not exactly the same application, but the amount of stress that must be withstood is very great. Just something to ponder.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I don't believe it. Talk to the lumber yards in Andorra, and in the surrounding areas of Spain. Ash trees die, or are cleared for one reason or another, there just as they are here. Its a valuable hard wood. The woodcutters, and lumberyards pay good money for such wood. It won't be as cheap as pine, but I am willing to bet it can be found. Ash is what is used here in the States to make Major League Baseball Bats.

 

[RedFeather]

You could go with something like a brass rod fir a temporary fix (that's got to be available) and meanwhile order hickory blanks or ready-mades from some place like Track Of The Wolf. May cost a bit to import, but they will last a long time. Plus it could actually be cheaper as I see gas thereabout is about $5- $7/gallon, so a prolonged search may be counter-productive.

 

[Joel/Calgary]

Hickory is popular over here for tool handles, especially picks, axes, hammers, and such. What wood is preferred for similar uses over there? Might such be suitable for a ramrod, and if so, might something in a suitable length be available?

Just a thought.

Joel

 

[yooper]

I hate to beat a dead horse but weren't the long bows of old made of yew? Perhaps that too may be an option...

 

[gerardus]

I went on tour this morning and found out that most tool handles are made of ash.
Interesting, but that would mean picking one with straight grain, and after that reducing it to ramrod dimensions. That's a lot of wood to split and remove in little time.
But I also found rods made of european beech and ramin, in several diameters. I'll try one of these while I order a hickory rod.

Thanks all for your contributions. :hatsoff:

 

[Stumpkiller]

IMHO I'm not sure shear strength is the most important factor in determining the durability of a ramrod. By the numbers previous listed Ramin has a shear strength 3X that of hickory. From personal experience a Ramin rod has no where near the durability of hickory (Ramin is offered from a couple well know suppliers). To test this, just take a ramin and hickory rod, side by side, and bend. The Ramin rod will break with about half the amount of stress compared to that of hickory. I think the best test of any rod would be to test the amount of compression and elongation that a rod can withstand. These stresses will be applied to the rod at the same time (but in unequal amounts) when a rod is in use. One last thing, of all the woods we have been discussing, what are wooden baseball bats made from I know it's not exactly the same application, but the amount of stress that must be withstood is very great. Just something to ponder.

I can tell you that ramin as an arrow wood does not hold up to hitting the ground repeatedly or in shooting stumps NEAR as well as cedar does. Could be because the arrow is that much heavier, but invariably the arrows snap just behind the head when used for small-game hunting or roving.

I didn't mean that poplar would be a good choice, just possibly better than cedar. I use hickory and nothing else.

 

[gerardus]

Hi all, it's me again.
I did some bending a breaking testing on ramin, beech and cedar.
The samples I had where:
- The original 9 mm Pedersoli rod, probably ramin.
- One 9 mm ramin rod, with a nasty grain
- Three 9 mm cedar arrow shafts
- two 8 mm european beech rods
- two 10 mm european beech rods
The test was:
Push the rod on a bath scale as straight as possible, until it breaks while reading the weight. All rods where shortened to the remaining length of the original broken rod.
The results:
- Original rod: 20.88 lbs, clean long split.
- 9 mm ramin with bad grain runout: 12.4 lbs and clean long split.
- 9 mm cedar arrow shafts: 20.44, 22.4 and 21.55 lbs, the break was more like an explosion, the where more splinters flying.
- 8 mm beech: 19.20 and 19.55, breakage similar to cedar.
- 10 mm beech: I stoped pushing at 37 lbs as i feared I would end with some wood in my arm. Could be used if i sanded it to 9mm.
Not really scientific or othodox testing, but interesting. I'm going to try to get more samples and keep testing. :youcrazy:

 

[Roy]

"Could be because the arrow is that much heavier"

I was shooting tapered hickory arrows a few years ago. With a 125 grn point they weighed on average 850 grns. (very heavy shaft). I never did break one, just lost a few. They could withstand a good bit of frontal impact. Never knew there were so many rocks in Montana :haha:

 

[Wehrmacht]

I'm not sure that you could easily find this book in Spain, but if you could reference a copy of "The Wood Handbook,Wood As An Engineering Material" a publication of the U.S. Forest Service-Forest Products Lab in Madison,Wisc. you will find numerous tables giving strengths of many species of wood including a lot of the tropical hardwoods. The telephone number there is 608-231-9200, and questions will be answered.It's much more fun to do the experimenting yourself, though!

Another wood that I had forgotten about that was occasionally used for ramrod material in the Southern Mountains was Sassafras.

 

[rcm]

Hmmm... Seeing mention of using arrows made me think..(dangerous) :haha: Seriously, though, it made me wonder how a carbon arrow shaft would work? Not by any means traditional, but.. :hmm: