Chainfires - the skinny? Maybe....

[snakebit]

Here's one that showed up on facebook today:

I'm glad they turned the camera off before checking her drawers for Hershey squirts.

 

[nick_1]

Karma. if you were desperate to shoot that day you could have liberally lubed up the cylinder mouths and gotten away with it. I have shot .440 RB with liberal dose of vasaline on chamber mouths and no problems other than the mess. . Interesting how all our 44s are really 45s

 

[maillemaker]

Karma. if you were desperate to shoot that day you could have liberally lubed up the cylinder mouths and gotten away with it. I have shot .440 RB with liberal dose of vasaline on chamber mouths and no problems other than the mess. . Interesting how all our 44s are really 45s

I suspect that contributes to some of these kinds of things. People see "Cal.44" and go find some .440 round balls, load 'em up and let 'em rip.

 

[ZUG]

I had a .31 cal Colt clone kit that had many chain fires and all of them happened from the nipple end - I only had #11 caps and they were a loose fit. I guess we all have different experiences.

 

[M. De Land]

I had a .31 cal Colt clone kit that had many chain fires and all of them happened from the nipple end - I only had #11 caps and they were a loose fit. I guess we all have different experiences.

I believe it can happen from either end as I have seen still shots of percussion revolver fire and flame could be seen at both ends of the cylinder. What I believe to be a factor in preventing rear ignited chain fire is two fold. Nipples with correct orifice's not burned out and full power hammer springs. If the hammer stays down on the spent cap at ignition and is not blown back to half cock then the fire channel is blocked/sealed so even a cap-less charged, adjacent chamber, would not fire.
I also don't have much faith in lubed wads to prevent front end chain fire especially with round balls as the wad is pressed into a cup shape under the ball not a flat plane which means the diameter is reduced and the edges of the perimeter no longer seal off the chamber wall.
A flat base conical would be an entirely different story as the wad would be pressed into a flat plane and the full diameter swaged beneath the bullet base to fully seal off against the chamber wall.

 

[Griff093]

MDL, color me a little skeptical about chainfires from the rear. Since mid-1986 I've shot in cowboy action events with an 1851 pattern revolver. My 1st one was an ASM gun assembled from surplus Uberti parts from the Colt 2nd gen contract. (Or so I was tokd when I bought from EMF). Since birne out as any replacement.spares have been either Uberti, Colt or aftermarket SAA parts. I have replaced the mainspring & bolt once with Colt SAA parts, and have a spare hammer & 2 cylinders from Uberti; all function perfectly, (bolt only needed minor fitting to ensure timing was correct). I've used stock nipples until they mushroomed, replaced them twice, then installed a set of AMPCO. In early 1987, a week before EOT, the hand spring broke, and a local gunsmith installed Ruger spring & plunger, (it's still in the gun). In the mid 1990s CAS went to using a second revolver. I picked up a C series 2nd Gen Colt, immediately sent it off to have the same mods done. At the same time he did a Manhatten conversion on both guns, (narrowing hammer face filling the slot and putting in a narrowed slot in the recoil shield. Early 2000s I picked up a F series and a 3rd Gen, and sent them off to be modified. He also recommended SlixShot nipples, which I have heeded. These 4 guns are my primary & backup guns for CAS.

The point of the above is that since a reload is sometimes necessary to complete a stage, I quickly ceased only charging 5 chambers and began charging all 6. I've always charged my pistols with powder, a lubed wad and a .375 ball. Based on the recommendation of a fellow C&B competitor, I'd early on started using Remington #10s. In all those years I've never had a chain fire. I won't say I couldn't have a chain fire the next time I shoot, but if history repeats itself, it's quite unlikely.

 

[Griff093]

I admit, those photos & videos of exorbitant fireballs from front & rear of C&B revolvers certainly give one pause. But,During the second full week of Sep they mostly leave me wondering what they're doing differently from me. Are they loading at max capacity and the mainspring can't contain the back pressure. . or, have they lightened the mainspring to similar effect? During the 2nd full week of Sep., I'll be doing prep for my next big match. At dusk onre nite I'll film me shooting a cylinder prepped as usual during a match.

 

[M. De Land]

I admit, those photos & videos of exorbitant fireballs from front & rear of C&B revolvers certainly give one pause. But,During the second full week of Sep they mostly leave me wondering what they're doing differently from me. Are they loading at max capacity and the mainspring can't contain the back pressure. . or, have they lightened the mainspring to similar effect? During the 2nd full week of Sep., I'll be doing prep for my next big match. At dusk onre nite I'll film me shooting a cylinder prepped as usual during a match.

I've never had a chain fire either and it's probably because I have never lightened a hammer spring but rather install sear lifts to lighten trigger pulls and have always seated oversized balls. Pretty simple remedies really !
I'd expect as a cowboy shooter you may shoot your revolvers more than I do in our monthly 40 shot target matches and yearly territorial event that I find myself attending less with each passing year. I was pretty regular at these till about my 70th birthday.

 

[B P Maniac Shooter]

I'm glad they turned the camera off before checking her drawers for Hershey squirts.

WOW...smoking & shooting BP that close.
If I tried that, my viewers would bury me with negative comments.

 

[Bunk]

Very informative video, @TFoley. Thanks for posting it.

I think that information on how to properly fit a percussion cap to the cone of the nipple would have been helpful. I agree with his premise that most chainfires are caused by fire getting around an undersized ball. Once I went to properly sized balls, I eliminated chainfires. I have measured the cones to know which cap size I should be using in that revolver. Remmington #10's with their longer skirt seem to fit better that CCI caps with shorter skirts. CCI #11 caps will fit loosely on the cones sized for a #10 CCI cap.

For information just pop a cap on an empty chamber in a darkened place.
Note the ball of fire around the recoil shield.
Then tell be chain fires start at the chamber mouth.
cover the ball with your favorite lube and check each chamber mouth after each shot.
Now go clean that greasy gun.
In the sharps and Smith carbines i use plain lard as a filler between th powder and bullet, the fouling is soft even after 20 or so shots.
Make Smoke!
bunk

 

[snakebit]

WOW...smoking & shooting BP that close.
If I tried that, my viewers would bury me with negative comments.

I have a you are wayyy smarter than that Mark. And have respect for weapons, and those around you. And she failed to take your advice......hearing, and eye protection are strongly encouraged

 

[Eutycus]

I can't get over how much that girl in the video looks like my neice, right down to the dangling cigarette.

 

[Bunk]

For information just pop a cap on an empty chamber in a darkened place.
Note the ball of fire around the recoil shield.
Then tell be chain fires start at the chamber mouth.
cover the ball with your favorite lube and check each chamber mouth after each shot.
Now go clean that greasy gun.
In the sharps and Smith carbines i use plain lard as a filler between th powder and bullet, the fouling is soft even after 20 or so shots.
Make Smoke!
bunk

by the way even though i cast my own Sharps ring tail bullet those "little" 450 grain beauties cost almost two bits a bang not including powder, Hahn tube and musket cap. Just in case you shoot more my S/S precludes that but good for you.
Making smoke
(as soon as it rains don't want to set the range on fire)
Bunk

 

[TrapperDude]

For information just pop a cap on an empty chamber in a darkened place.
Note the ball of fire around the recoil shield.
Then tell be chain fires start at the chamber mouth.
cover the ball with your favorite lube and check each chamber mouth after each shot.
Now go clean that greasy gun.
In the sharps and Smith carbines i use plain lard as a filler between th powder and bullet, the fouling is soft even after 20 or so shots.
Make Smoke!
bunk

Since the ones who have intentionally left a cap off of a cylinder and never had a chain fire have repeated the exercise enough, the evidence seems pretty clear that chain fires do not happen from the rear. There's a reason that a direct amount of heat and pressure from a cap is needed to ignite a charge.

 

[nick_1]

again the proof is in the process. If one experiences a chain fire and isolates the issue by repeating the chain fire, correcting the problem with only one step. then recreating the chain fire and correcting it again then we know for certain what the problem is. if you correct several different things and cure the problem you don't know which of the steps you took was the cure.

 

[sheriff john]

Somewhere around here is an antique can of caps marked "pistol" or "revolver". Can't find it this morning. Anyway, the caps are markedly shorter than what's available these days. Point is that, at one time, all caps were not made the same. May have been "Goldmark" ? Nowadays, we're stuck with a quite limited selection. Weren't always thataway.

 

[Bad Karma]

Karma. if you were desperate to shoot that day you could have liberally lubed up the cylinder mouths and gotten away with it. I have shot .440 RB with liberal dose of vasaline on chamber mouths and no problems other than the mess. . Interesting how all our 44s are really 45s

Yeah, I just put it down and picked up something else as I recall. Man those 440’s must have rattled going down the pipe!

 

[azmntman]

Have not heard from Mke the Goonrizer on this subject? He woks on C&B revolvers every day and maybe he knows or can give input? Mike??

 

[M. De Land]

Since the ones who have intentionally left a cap off of a cylinder and never had a chain fire have repeated the exercise enough, the evidence seems pretty clear that chain fires do not happen from the rear. There's a reason that a direct amount of heat and pressure from a cap is needed to ignite a charge.

You probably have a full strength hammer spring and your nipples are not burned out which will seal from back blast hence chain fire from the rear in capless ajacent charged chambers. That doesn't mean rear chain fire does not happen in other guns with weak hammer springs and eroded nipples.

 

[TrapperDude]

You probably have a full strength hammer spring and your nipples are not burned out which will seal from back blast hence chain fire from the rear in capless ajacent charged cylinders. That doesn't mean rear chain fire does not happen in other guns with weak hammer springs and eroded nipples.

The weak hammer spring is an interesting variable to consider...