Chainfires - the skinny? Maybe....

[Loyalist Dave]

Chainfires were part of the evolution of Cap and Ball revolvers. Like it it was meant to be. That's why we now have Cartridge weapons. Remember 1836 to 1876 is a short time to deal with the problem. Now we have an endless debate over front or back for something that wasn't really mentioned that much in history. There are two types of shooters, those who have had a chainfire and those who lie about it

Interesting..., I thought that cartridges were developed to improve all weather capability, and to speed and make even easier reloading.

LD

 

[Hawk54]

Interesting..., I thought that cartridges were developed to improve all weather capability, and to speed and make even easier reloading.

LD

Exactly!

 

[Hawk54]

Chainfires were part of the evolution of Cap and Ball revolvers. Like it it was meant to be. That's why we now have Cartridge weapons. Remember 1836 to 1876 is a short time to deal with the problem. Now we have an endless debate over front or back for something that wasn't really mentioned that much in history. There are two types of shooters, those who have had a chainfire and those who lie about it

Chainfires are an unintended consequence. Chainfires have nothing to do with the development of cartridges. If chainfires were such a big problem they would have been mentioned many times in historical writings. Have never seen it mentioned. As for two types of shooters. Nonsense! I have never had one and know others who have never had one.

 

[nick_1]

and if you never shoot under sized balls with no lube you never will have one.

 

[Uncle Miltie]

And not once in this thread has anyone discussed improper nipple length causing chain fires....

 

[nick_1]

if you can find improper nipples simply install them and see if you can create chainfires. then we can absolutely talk about it.

 

[Mogadishu Meanderer]

And not once in this thread has anyone discussed improper nipple length causing chain fires....

Hmmm.. I never thought about it! What does your testing shows when it comes to short or longer than standard nipples?? That would be an interesting read!

 

[Mogadishu Meanderer]

Evidence and physics are the best foundations for an opinion. If the physics don't support a nipple-end caused chain fire, and if multiple experiments on chain fires can only duplicate them from the front, then there is little foundation to support the idea that a chain fire can come from the rear.

All we have right now is "if x, y, and z align properly, then a chain fire could come from the rear. No one has ever caused a chain fire to happen from the rear with any deliberate, duplicatable results, but people have duplicated results with chain fires from the front.

The idea of a chain fire from the rear is a neat idea, but it's based all on untested hypotheticals that violate the laws of physics.

View attachment 251519

I took this experiment a bit further. After 30 balls fired in this manner with no chain fire I filled the nipples from the rear with 4f, another 30 rounds and no chain fire. I went further, smeared a bit of lube {beeswax and tallow) around the nipple and impregnated it with 4f, 30 rounds, no chain fire. So I figured May be is the gun design, it was a NMA. So I conducted the same with a Colt 1860. Same results. Now, I don’t shoot sloppy guns with improper nipples, springs, light hammers, etc. I only used .457 PRBs, Schuetzen 3F, RWS 1075 cpas and home made lube. Half a day shooting, two guns, 180 balls and caps, half a pound of powder later, no chain fire.

 

[M. De Land]

Interesting..., I thought that cartridges were developed to improve all weather capability, and to speed and make even easier reloading.

LD

True as paper and then copper cases were developed while still using black powder as the propellant. Brass cases (copper and zinc ) came along in the semi-smokeless and then smokeless powder era.
Higher pressures of smokeless powder could not be sealed with the percussion system of ignition. This was probably the main driving force of metallic cartridge evolution.

 

[Flintlock Whiskey]

Four pages of input on this subject so far and many reasons postulated and a few insults posted, so here is my theory. It has happened three times to me in the span of 40 years of shooting. Since no one has mentioned it yet, mine occurred during a new moon. So, perhaps the combined gravitational pull of the sun and moon had something to do with it. Just my two cents.

 

[TrapperDude]

This is a good thread. It's the first really dedicated discussion of whether chain fires come from the front or back, rather than just a bunch of individual anecdotes that don't elaborate on any theories.

 

[Hawk54]

Could have eaten a lot of refried beans. That could cause a chain fire.

 

[nick_1]

Whisky, what happened to you? It?

 

[Mogadishu Meanderer]

Whisky, what happened to you? It?

He already said what happened- “the combined gravitational pull of the sun and moon had something to do with it”. Really deep insight there!!

 

[45D]

Gotta agree with test results. A longtime forum member on other forums did the same test ( years ago) with only the nipple capped that was being fired. No chain fire.
So, I have to go with the conclusion that chain fires come from the front because of chambers out of roud or ill fitting balls / conicals.

As far as weak main springs, a cap post alleviates that problem. A cap hull can't push a hammer back further than the post.

Mike

 

[Flintlock Whiskey]

Whisky, what happened to you? It?

???

 

[Flintlock Whiskey]

He already said what happened- “the combined gravitational pull of the sun and moon had something to do with it”. Really deep insight there!!

I thought so.

 

[nick_1]

you said "it" happened to you. you never said what "it " was

 

[Bunk]

Gotta agree with test results. A longtime forum member on other forums did the same test ( years ago) with only the nipple capped that was being fired. No chain fire.
So, I have to go with the conclusion that chain fires come from the front because of chambers out of roud or ill fitting balls / conicals.

As far as weak main springs, a cap post alleviates that problem. A cap hull can't push a hammer back further than the post.

Mike

if it has a post or shield. otherwise the cap pieces can go down into the works.
Do not ask me how I know. Experience gained from three complete tear downs for five shots.
Bunk

 

[M. De Land]

if it has a post or shield. otherwise the cap pieces can go down into the works.
Do not ask me how I know. Experience gained from three complete tear downs for five shots.
Bunk

That is so weird to hear as in 50 years of shooting open and solid frame percussion guns competitively have I ever had a spent cap fall into the action from the hammer mortise and tie the gun up or had a chain fire ! These are formal 30 and 40 shot for score target matches and with sighters one will usually send 40-50 balls down range per month.
I have had spent caps jamb up between the recoil shield an nipple pocket on rare occasions and with the flick of a knife point or screw driver was back in business but other than that minor inconvenience no trouble at all.
Mostly I shoot a 58 Pietta, ROA, 60 Pietta and several single shot match pistols which have all been tuned up well and had some new parts made for them (triggers, wedge and springs).
I can't say I have ever seen any of the folks I compete with have a gun made inoperable by a spent cap down in the action either.
I have to guess that some models of percussion guns are far more susceptible to this malfunction than any I have ever shot in great numbers.