Chainfires - the skinny? Maybe....

[Texas guns]

Question on this. I've read recommendations to place a patch over the bullet then gun grease. No patch but cover the chamber with gun grease? Is there something else to cover the opening? Some recommendations please. I've never experienced a chain fire and don't particularly want to.
Guns blowing up-- - - - On a qualification range (I'm a retired federal
agent NNMC) The guy next to me apparently had his duty weapon worked on (Illegally) and the cylinder was off. Blew the top strap off his Smith / Wesson Mdl 27, and manure went flying!! His hand wasn't too good either!
Anyway, some recommendations please?

 

[TrapperDude]

Question on this. I've read recommendations to place a patch over the bullet then gun grease. No patch but cover the chamber with gun grease? Is there something else to cover the opening? Some recommendations please. I've never experienced a chain fire and don't particularly want to.
Guns blowing up-- - - - On a qualification range (I'm a retired federal
agent NNMC) The guy next to me apparently had his duty weapon worked on (Illegally) and the cylinder was off. Blew the top strap off his Smith / Wesson Mdl 27, and manure went flying!! His hand wasn't too good either!
Anyway, some recommendations please?

Putting lube on top of the bullet it just messy and serves no purpose. A tight fitting bullet and clean powder management will keep you from getting chain fires.

Lube behind the bullet is best for fouling management, though. In accordance with a recommendation from the writer of the article excerpt I posted earlier, I smear a small amount of lube around the chamber mouth before I seat a ball, and I use cork disks to keep the lube from contaminating my powder charge.

If I can ever find some pure wool felt, I'll make some lubed wads to put behind my bullets like others do here.

 

[M. De Land]

Putting lube on top of the bullet it just messy and serves no purpose. A tight fitting bullet and clean powder management will keep you from getting chain fires.

Lube behind the bullet is best for fouling management, though. In accordance with a recommendation from the writer of the article excerpt I posted earlier, I smear a small amount of lube around the chamber mouth before I seat a ball, and I use cork disks to keep the lube from contaminating my powder charge.

If I can ever find some pure wool felt, I'll make some lubed wads to put behind my bullets like others do here.

Bring up Duro-felt on line. I use the stuff and make wads by the hundreds with a loading press mounted punch out die. I made my own die but they can be found on line. Fred Leith was the one given credit for the invention so I just looked one of his over and copied it. Works great with a pie tin when a hole is cut in the center and the tin is mounted under the die lock ring for a capture tray! It's actually fun to do (kind of like popping bubble wrap) !

 

[M. De Land]

Putting lube on top of the bullet it just messy and serves no purpose. A tight fitting bullet and clean powder management will keep you from getting chain fires.

Lube behind the bullet is best for fouling management, though. In accordance with a recommendation from the writer of the article excerpt I posted earlier, I smear a small amount of lube around the chamber mouth before I seat a ball, and I use cork disks to keep the lube from contaminating my powder charge.

If I can ever find some pure wool felt, I'll make some lubed wads to put behind my bullets like others do here.

If you make up some Mathews lube and soak your Duro-felt wads in it while still liquid you can load them right on the powder without contaminating it as it will not melt once it sponificates ( ten dollar word for chemical reaction of foaming up) in the mixing of it.
Actually I have had good result with just melted bees wax on Duro-felt wads under the ball. I think that's all that was on civil war era paper cartridges to seal them and lube the bullet.

 

[TrapperDude]

Bring up Duro-felt on line. I use the stuff and make wads by the hundreds with a loading press mounted punch out die. I made my own die but they can be found on line. Fred Leith was the one given credit for the invention so I just looked one of his over and copied it. Works great with a pie tin when a hole is cut in the center and the tin is mounted under the die lock ring for a capture tray! It's actually fun to do (kind of like popping bubble wrap) !

I have a round tool for punching out cork disks, so that would probably do the trick for the felt wads.

 

[TrapperDude]

If you make up some Mathews lube and soak your Duro-felt wads in it while still liquid you can load them right on the powder without contaminating it as it will not melt once it sponificates ( ten dollar word for chemical reaction of foaming up) in the mixing of it.
Actually I have had good result with just melted bees wax on Duro-felt wads under the ball. I think that's all that was on civil war era paper cartridges to seal them and lube the bullet.

I mixed up some beeswax and shortening for a summer lube that stays pretty solid, so I could probably rub a felt wad on top of the stuff and put it into the chamber, lubed side up, to work in a pinch or dip the wads into the melted stuff. I'd just have to make sure to keep stirring it to ensure consistency of the stuff so I don't end up with wads that are heavier on just shortening than the others.

Pre-lubed wads would make the loading process a LOT more convenient.

 

[TrapperDude]

If you make up some Mathews lube and soak your Duro-felt wads in it while still liquid you can load them right on the powder without contaminating it as it will not melt once it sponificates ( ten dollar word for chemical reaction of foaming up) in the mixing of it.
Actually I have had good result with just melted bees wax on Duro-felt wads under the ball. I think that's all that was on civil war era paper cartridges to seal them and lube the bullet.

I forgot to ask in my previous post if Matthews Lube has a recipe posted somewhere here.

 

[M. De Land]

I mixed up some beeswax and shortening for a summer lube that stays pretty solid, so I could probably rub a felt wad on top of the stuff and put it into the chamber, lubed side up, to work in a pinch or dip the wads into the melted stuff. I'd just have to make sure to keep stirring it to ensure consistency of the stuff so I don't end up with wads that are heavier on just shortening than the others.

Pre-lubed wads would make the loading process a LOT more convenient.

I got really tired of having less lube over each ball with each additional shot and having to clean lube off my shooting glasses and spotting scope if the wind was in my face. So far the lubed felt wads seem as accurate as the over ball lube but I have not given it a head to head test yet.

 

[TrapperDude]

I got really tired of having less lube over each ball with each additional shot and having to clean lube off my shooting glasses and spotting scope if the wind was in my face. So far the lubed felt wads seem as accurate as the over ball lube but I have not given it a head to head test yet.

Yeah, I've never put lube in front of the ball. From what I've read, it just gets blown out before it ever mixes with the fouling.

 

[M. De Land]

Bring up Duro-felt on line. I use the stuff and make wads by the hundreds with a loading press mounted punch out die. I made my own die but they can be found on line. Fred Leith was the one given credit for the invention so I just looked one of his over and copied it. Works great with a pie tin when a hole is cut in the center and the tin is mounted under the die lock ring for a capture tray! It's actually fun to do (kind of like popping bubble wrap) !

This is what the set up looks like. I've made three of these Fred Leith wad cutting dies for various caliber wads and they work equally well with felt, milk carton, veg gasket or plastic sheeting.
I think perhaps Buffalo Arms sells these dies for wad cutting.

 

[M. De Land]

This set up makes cleanly cut wads fast.

 

[Mogadishu Meanderer]

Yeah, I've never put lube in front of the ball. From what I've read, it just gets blown out before it ever mixes with the fouling.

Trapper, dont believe all you read and only 10% of what I say, but if you do a semi scientific test on wads vs lube over ball you might be surprised of what you find! There is a good chance that messy nasty runny lube keeps your guns running! I have all the tools to make them from duro felt and did for a while, I went back to lube over the ball! I can look at my notes but IIRC was one of my ROAs , started with clean gun and shot 60 balls with wads before the gun was made difficult to shoot due to hard dry fouling. With lube over the ball I stopped at 100 but could continue basically indefinitely. When you shoot this long the ROA hammer needs to be wiped clean to keep it going but that happens regardless what method you use. Now I use the wads mostly for testing and thinkering here and there. On the other hand my Hawken .50 cal loves them under a Maxi Ball… so….you have to experiment and see what’s work for you.

 

[TrapperDude]

Trapper, dont believe all you read and only 10% of what I say, but if you do a semi scientific test on wads vs lube over ball you might be surprised of what you find! There is a good chance that messy nasty runny lube keeps your guns running! I have all the tools to make them from duro felt and did for a while, I went back to lube over the ball! I can look at my notes but IIRC was one of my ROAs , started with clean gun and shot 60 balls with wads before the gun was made difficult to shoot due to hard dry fouling. With lube over the ball I stopped at 100 but could continue basically indefinitely. When you shoot this long the ROA hammer needs to be wiped clean to keep it going but that happens regardless what method you use. Now I use the wads mostly for testing and thinkering here and there. On the other hand my Hawken .50 cal loves them under a Maxi Ball… so….you have to experiment and see what’s work for you.

I've only put lube behind the ball, and 48 is the most rounds I've fired in one session, but I didn't lose a lot of accuracy over the course of those sessions. Of course, I put the lube directly around the chamber mouths before seating the bullets.

 

[Whitworth]

Chain fires are like Big Foot sightings. You know what you experienced no matter what others may think, and yes I've seen him.

 

[nkbj]

Ever notice how fires happen when people use greases made with flammable oils and waxes?

 

[nkbj]

This is what the set up looks like. I've made three of these Fred Leith wad cutting dies for various caliber wads and they work equally well with felt, milk carton, veg gasket or plastic sheeting.
I think perhaps Buffalo Arms sells these dies for wad cutting.

Now that there is plum neat as could be.

 

[nkbj]

I've only put lube behind the ball, and 48 is the most rounds I've fired in one session, but I didn't lose a lot of accuracy over the course of those sessions. Of course, I put the lube directly around the chamber mouths before seating the bullets.

Ever try a dab of lube over the cornmeal?

 

[TrapperDude]

Ever try a dab of lube over the cornmeal?

Well, I've never used cornmeal because I use 30gr charges, but putting the lube on top of my cork disks would probably do about the same. The problem is that I would still have to touch the stuff at the range and create a smeary mess to clean off of my fingers like I already have to do. That's why I like the pre-lubed felt wads so much--no muss, no fuss!

 

[Griff093]

For over 3 decades I simply use lubed wads (Ox-Yoke back in the day, and the Cabela's brand now) between ball & powder in my .36 cal 1851s and can run a 3-day match match without fussing with the guns from beginning to end. A single day match consists of 30 shots per gun over the course of about 4 hours of competition. Start loading before the 1st stage, (Usually around 9am), ending about 1 pm. I do my relads while others are shooting each stage, so no delay to the match. Pack the innards with synthetic grease, liberally grease the arbor and cylinder ratchet after each clealing session and I don't have do it again until I clean again. With a fairly tight cylinder gap on Colt type lockwork fouling is mostly spit down the barrel. I load with the gun assembled on a stand, keep powder off the cylinder face and have no problems.

 

[1861colt]

Trapper, dont believe all you read and only 10% of what I say, but if you do a semi scientific test on wads vs lube over ball you might be surprised of what you find! There is a good chance that messy nasty runny lube keeps your guns running! I have all the tools to make them from duro felt and did for a while, I went back to lube over the ball! I can look at my notes but IIRC was one of my ROAs , started with clean gun and shot 60 balls with wads before the gun was made difficult to shoot due to hard dry fouling. With lube over the ball I stopped at 100 but could continue basically indefinitely. When you shoot this long the ROA hammer needs to be wiped clean to keep it going but that happens regardless what method you use. Now I use the wads mostly for testing and thinkering here and there. On the other hand my Hawken .50 cal loves them under a Maxi Ball… so….you have to experiment and see what’s work for you.

Could you please tell us what the amounts and ingredients you use for your wad lube, how you put it on your wads, real black or the other stuff and the temperature outside at the time of the failure. Maybe someone here could suggest an alteration to your process that may solve your problem of hard dry fouling.