I'm sorry but I have to say this. I am starting to slow down with my shooting because of some health problems but my rifles don't collect two weeks of dust yet. Last year I did only shot a few cans more of Goex out of two cases I usually shoot over three cases.
Changing patch material and lube?
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jamesthomas
70 Cal.
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O.K. Just checking :thumbsup: .
Recoil, if you do a lot of reading you'll find numerous posts/comments about the difference patch/lube combinations can make to a rifle's accuracy.
All rifles are different and respond differently to patches and lubes. I'm going through this at the moment, two of my rifles shoot pretty good with a wax concoction on heavy canvas patches, but my Frontier flinter doesn't like it at all! Time consuming (and taxes the brain cells a bit!) but all part of the fun.
All rifles are different and respond differently to patches and lubes. I'm going through this at the moment, two of my rifles shoot pretty good with a wax concoction on heavy canvas patches, but my Frontier flinter doesn't like it at all! Time consuming (and taxes the brain cells a bit!) but all part of the fun.
Patocazador
54 Cal.
I think a lot of has to do with temperature too. At 50 deg. warmer, your load develops more pressure and more heat thus changing a stout load of 80 gr. of 2F Old E to essentially 80+ gr. of 3F Old E. Also the same lube is thinned out more at higher temps. thus changing its physical characteristics.
As stated by someone else, you are comparing apples to oranges without realizing it.
As stated by someone else, you are comparing apples to oranges without realizing it.
don hepler
58 Cal.
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It seems like the tighter patch is the way to go. I'm 64 and shoot pretty good at 50 yds. but 100 yds. is beyond my limit. Light conditions can be a big factor, even my young son-in-law, has mentioned it on several occasions.
recoil said:I sometimes scratch me head in wonder when I shoot my Southern Mountain flint why this is going on just changing patch material and lube.
I was getting ready for deer last fall and shot leaning on a post checking the load and shot a darn nice group on a very windy day.
A couple days ago I pulled out ole sparky again to get some practice rounds and used the same load and patches and shot too 100 yards leaning on the same post and had a hard time holding paper.
These rifles have been my friend since I was about 16 years old and I still wonder what is going on. It don't matter if I use the flints or the caps. It cant always be conditions.
Sorry for the large pictures. Bucket wont let me make a thumbnail for some reason.
Butch
"Cold bore" shot out of the group is not unusual with any rifle modern or otherwise. But you may be able to mitigate this with changes in patch lube. Something like Neatfoot Oil or Tallow may help but requires testing, these may not be as accurate as teflon but they are plenty good enough for any but the most demanding applications.
Honestly? If you shot that upper group in a high wind it was pure luck or the law of compensating errors. Its simply not possible with ANY cross wind component and even a tail or head wind will produce vertical changes since it ALWAYS varies. a 27 mph cross wind would carry the ball completely off the paper and maybe the backer if its small at 50 yards. I have shot several hundred RBs at 60 yards in rest matches in various winds from almost calm to the point of blowing away the heavy target boards. Not guessing. Not allowing for a 5 mph change in velocity is going to blow the group in rest match. 10 mph is good for about 2" of drift at 50 yards with a 50 caliber RB at 1900 fps.
So you need to do more testing WITH A SOLID REST. You are testing the gun and load not the shooters ability to cope with a "loose" rest position.
Dan
Dan.
Yup the winds where high, but I'm not out in the open plains of Montana like you are. I used to do a lot of Iron critter shooting and the Q out your way but that was using black powder suppository roller rifles and I know what Montana winds will do even to the 500 gr plus balls.
I shoot in tight woods where your lucky to have a clear 100 yard shot. Even with the winds bending the upper tree branches it wouldn't ruffle the hairs on a Horses tail on the ground any where I hunt.
Thank you guys for your input.
Butch
Yup the winds where high, but I'm not out in the open plains of Montana like you are. I used to do a lot of Iron critter shooting and the Q out your way but that was using black powder suppository roller rifles and I know what Montana winds will do even to the 500 gr plus balls.
I shoot in tight woods where your lucky to have a clear 100 yard shot. Even with the winds bending the upper tree branches it wouldn't ruffle the hairs on a Horses tail on the ground any where I hunt.
Thank you guys for your input.
Butch
Are you using new patch material and how do you lube it and when was the last time you did lubricate it?
You're a candidate for Dutch Schoultz's The System.
You're a candidate for Dutch Schoultz's The System.
I guess I didn't make my post to clear.
My post was intended to ask why a group opens up five times the diameter at just 50 yards.
Yes I know lubes and loads make a difference. Heck I been shooting muzzleloaders for more than 50 years. I don't know who Mr. Schoultz is or what his System is.
This particular rifle will shoot that group at 50 yards supported no matter if I soak the patch in my mouth or what ever lube I rub on the ticking. This particular day I tried the Teflon stuff I just got and it shot very good but I have to say no better than what I usually use.
This rifle just shoots and shoots well. I except the fact that my eyes are going down hill fast but the groups just should not open as much as the bottom target. I shot one of Jethro's extended range match on the 3x8" paper strip at 100 yards and had a problem staying on it.
A group just should not open up 5 times larger in just 50 yards.
I'm going fishing so I might not get back on here till the water gets hard.
Y'all shoot straight now!!
My post was intended to ask why a group opens up five times the diameter at just 50 yards.
Yes I know lubes and loads make a difference. Heck I been shooting muzzleloaders for more than 50 years. I don't know who Mr. Schoultz is or what his System is.
This particular rifle will shoot that group at 50 yards supported no matter if I soak the patch in my mouth or what ever lube I rub on the ticking. This particular day I tried the Teflon stuff I just got and it shot very good but I have to say no better than what I usually use.
This rifle just shoots and shoots well. I except the fact that my eyes are going down hill fast but the groups just should not open as much as the bottom target. I shot one of Jethro's extended range match on the 3x8" paper strip at 100 yards and had a problem staying on it.
A group just should not open up 5 times larger in just 50 yards.
I'm going fishing so I might not get back on here till the water gets hard.
Y'all shoot straight now!!
Dutch is a member about your age who has been a tremendous help to even seasoned bp shooters like yourself.
If you vary the lube on your patches even a small amount from shot to shot you'll get that kind of string we saw in your target. You're could have been from an off center sprue or light ball.
Wet your lines and catch some dinner and when you get back spend the best $20 you ever let go of on BP and get it.
If you vary the lube on your patches even a small amount from shot to shot you'll get that kind of string we saw in your target. You're could have been from an off center sprue or light ball.
Wet your lines and catch some dinner and when you get back spend the best $20 you ever let go of on BP and get it.
Swathdiver,
Thank you for the recommendation.
Sales have declined to the point where I am,again, considering discontinuing selling the System.
Its only affordable for me to print over a hundred at a time but am not sure whether I can afford to print copies that I won't be selling.
Being 86 I don't plan e too many long term plans for the future.
I'm at he coin flipping stage.
Dutch
Thank you for the recommendation.
Sales have declined to the point where I am,again, considering discontinuing selling the System.
Its only affordable for me to print over a hundred at a time but am not sure whether I can afford to print copies that I won't be selling.
Being 86 I don't plan e too many long term plans for the future.
I'm at he coin flipping stage.
Dutch
Yes, I have thought of going digital, but a digital copy would soon become widely separated and would be just like public domaine and I might have to begin eating my cats who are nervous already.
Dutch
Dutch
DearRecoil,
The fact that you don't know me is something I regard with alarm.
Email me at
[email protected] with your postal address and I'll send you one of the few remaining copies of my System at no charge whatever.
I never was in it for the money. Mostly I just wanted to spread the word of what I had discovered that was so effective for me and apparently countless others.
Dutch Schoultz
[email protected]
The fact that you don't know me is something I regard with alarm.
Email me at
[email protected] with your postal address and I'll send you one of the few remaining copies of my System at no charge whatever.
I never was in it for the money. Mostly I just wanted to spread the word of what I had discovered that was so effective for me and apparently countless others.
Dutch Schoultz
[email protected]
Thanks again Dutch for putting this together and making it available to us.
I used to follow the same principals in drag racing. One change at a time and my cars ran faster for a given dollar spent than my competitors.
The System has been a great help to me in shooting sixguns and have been reading it over and over as of late for rifles and doubleguns.
I used to follow the same principals in drag racing. One change at a time and my cars ran faster for a given dollar spent than my competitors.
The System has been a great help to me in shooting sixguns and have been reading it over and over as of late for rifles and doubleguns.
But if you discontinue selling, you won't be having any income either. My point is that If you offer it digital only at either the same Price or the current price minus current cost, you will at least still be able to offer it. You mentioned you considered discontinuing because of declining sales and that you had to advance purchase the materials, Well, If you stop, all income is zero.Dutch Schoultz said:
The people here do a pretty good job of keeping it copyrighted. I don't see that changing. People here market the tool for you and I don't see that changing. Nothing would stop people from scanning the material now and then emailing others right now, same for your ebook file. If you stop selling it and then no one can get it, people may be compelled to give out the information that is no longer available.
Personally, I feel people want instant access and would more likely drop $10-$20 if they got all the info right away.
My 2 cents.
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OK Dutch, I have read and talked to enough folks about your system. I just went to your page and placed my order. I look forward to reading and applying your system.
ibnid,
If you placed an order it did not come through.
I sent you a Forum post to send me your postal address
at [email protected] so I could get everything in the mail to you this morning.
But there has been no order and no response
It is a puzzlement.
Dutch
If you placed an order it did not come through.
I sent you a Forum post to send me your postal address
at [email protected] so I could get everything in the mail to you this morning.
But there has been no order and no response
It is a puzzlement.
Dutch
