Changing powder...

[Sparkitoff]

I have an inexpensive caplock rifle that can't make up its mind. It will shoot a certain combo great and then it seems to go to pot. Then it shows promise with another combo but it doesn't last. The manufacturer recommended Triple 7 and "their" branded bullets. Not interested in the bullets, I did try the Triple 7. Did the usual up and down 5 grain increments and did not find anything exciting about the groups. Changed to my favorite powder, the Goex FFFg. Same drill of up and down 5 grains and found the groups worse than the Triple 7. I spent a long range day with the Triple 7 and figured out the best amount for a reasonable group. I ran out of powder - well the Triple 7 at least. I had some Pyrodex RS that I use in my shotgun. I tried this and got an amazing group for this rifle. Tried it again and again, mostly in disbelief. Cleaned the rifle, went back to range and was able to repeat the nice groups with the Pyrodex RS. I'm posting this just for information. I guess the point is that there is a combo for every rifle, you just have to find it. And don't be hesitant about trying something different to see how it works. I encourage anyone with a stubborn rifle to change components until something works. There are a lot of potential reasons for inaccuracy or inconsistency. In this case it was the powder, apparently. I welcome any discussion or thoughts for us all to ponder and learn.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Personally I don't believe it's the powder type. The fact that you got it shooting on one powder is in all effect treating symptom.
My first reaction to inconsistent muzzleloader rifles is to check bedding of the rifle to the stock, especially at the tang or hook. The barrel pins or wedge/s and in caplocks see if the nipple drum or bolster is bearing on the lock plate. With flintlocks I do the same but make sure the lock plate is not bearing greatly against the barrel.
If any of them flag up with your rifle please DON'T report back. No body ever does so nobody ever learns anything really useful here!
Best wishes.

 

[bang]

One common thing that got repeat that you mentioned was you cleaned then got repeat. Are you swabbing after 2 or 3 shots? What caliber and what is the charge?

 

[mooman76]

Personally I don't believe it's the powder type. The fact that you got it shooting on one powder is in all effect treating symptom.
My first reaction to inconsistent muzzleloader rifles is to check bedding of the rifle to the stock, especially at the tang or hook. The barrel pins or wedge/s and in caplocks see if the nipple drum or bolster is bearing on the lock plate. With flintlocks I do the same but make sure the lock plate is not bearing greatly against the barrel.
If any of them flag up with your rifle please DON'T report back. No body ever does so nobody ever learns anything really useful here!
Best wishes.

Reporting back to me is just a common courtesy. People take the time to help, I feel it's the least you can do. Also there is always someone else out there with a similar problem that you might be able to help if you post what was the answer for your problem.

Did you check your fired patches? Reading the patches tells allot in problem solving. It isn't always the answer but you have to look at all the evidence.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

In this case it was the powder, apparently. I welcome any discussion or thoughts for us all to ponder and learn.

Any idea of the muzzle velocity for the different loads?

LD

 

[Sparkitoff]

This is a 50 cap lock. The tang and barrel are bedded. The wedge is snug but not tight. The wedge loop has horizontal space for slight movement. The nipple is fairly new, I change them first if impact or velocity changes. The 70 grain Triple 7 load was 1594 FPS. I did not chrono other loads yet. The Pyrodex RS load that seems to be most accurate is 100 grains.

 

[Britsmoothy]

This is a 50 cap lock. The tang and barrel are bedded. The wedge is snug but not tight. The wedge loop has horizontal space for slight movement. The nipple is fairly new, I change them first if impact or velocity changes. The 70 grain Triple 7 load was 1594 FPS. I did not chrono other loads yet. The Pyrodex RS load that seems to be most accurate is 100 grains.

You didn't mention the nipple drum to lock plate brother! Is there clearance?

 

[BJHabermehl]

You didn't mention the nipple drum to lock plate brother! Is there clearance?

I need to differ here for safety. As a gun builder I cringe when you speak of drum to lock plate clearance. The powder drum Must be supported by the lock plate. Or metal fatigue will eventually set in at the junction of the powder drums threaded shoulder and threads, making the drum a potential projectile eventually. If the breech has a one piece snail with no threaded drum then I have no issue with a bit of clearance. I have seen powder drums disappear at line shoots. Thankfully, no injuries. The must be firmly supported by the lock. BJH

PS As a after thought, do we have a nomenclature difference between US and British?

 

[Britsmoothy]

I need to differ here for safety. As a gun builder I cringe when you speak of drum to lock plate clearance. The powder drum Must be supported by the lock plate. Or metal fatigue will eventually set in at the junction of the powder drums threaded shoulder and threads, making the drum a potential projectile eventually. If the breech has a one piece snail with no threaded drum then I have no issue with a bit of clearance. I have seen powder drums disappear at line shoots. Thankfully, no injuries. The must be firmly supported by the lock. BJH

PS As a after thought, do we have a nomenclature difference between US and British?

I beg to differ sir. The threads hold the drums against the barrel by the threads. The drums shoulder where it butt's up to the barrel is what supports it from the hammer blow. It is not the job of the lock plate at all. Some lock plates are only held in place by small screw/s and inside by very slight inletting, non of which is designed to take any percussion.
The accidents you mention could be due to a whole host of reasons and reasoning on the tendancy that most drums do sit forcibly on the lock plate can you verify that the drums that did fail were in fact off the lock plate?
If you can not verify that it is I am afraid an assumption.
I however on several occasions have found an accuracy issue purely connected to the area we are speaking of.
Best regards.