Charleville "blessing hole" question

[squirejohn]

A few years ago while looking at muskets in the museum at Fort Ticonderoga a French re-enactor pointed out a Charleville musket that looked as though a piece of wood had been removed from the stock and subsequently replaced with a round plug of wood. The plug was about 3/4"D and located on butt, not too far behind the wrist. The re-enactor told me some soldiers during the F&I War removed pieces of wood from their muskets to have the blessed by a priest. He referred to them as "blessing holes". Has anyone ever heard of this? Can you elaborate?

 

[Henry]

A " Charleville " ( 1763 ) at the
F&I war ( ended 1760 ) ?

Never heard of such a blessing , never seen
such a wood plug .

I wonder what his sergeant said ?

 

[Belleville]

Yes have heard of and seen the blessed plugs. Have never found the documentation behind the plugs which are supposedly olive wood with the Pope's cartouch. There must be something to the story, as have heard it too many times to be urban legend and then there is the existance of the plugs.

Doc Shaffer
les compagnies du D

 

[squirejohn]

You're right of course Henry - delete Charleville.

 

[squirejohn]

Seems to be something to this. I e-mailed the folks at Fort Ti to see what info/documentation they may have. Will let you know what I find out.

 

[squirejohn]

I heard back from the curator at Fort Ti. I would post his response directly but I barely know where the on/off switch is on this electronic contraption. To paraphrase his response - He doesn't know why/what these plugs were for on Model 1777 French muskets and later models. He's heard a number of different reasons - all different. He did say they definetly had nothing to do with the F&I War. Makes sense since they are found on 1777 models and later.

 

[Henry]

So we are going somewhere after all .

May we guess that thoses guns are from the
stock sold to the US revolution ?
Is possible to know if these plugs were added
in America or if the guns came from France
like that ?

Could you be more precise as to the location
of the plug , I would be curious to ask
on a french black powder forum .

 

[squirejohn]

I cannot be more specific as to the exact location of the plugged hole as described in my first post except to say it was on the right side. Also I don't know if the size/location of the holes are the same on all/most muskets since I only saw one. I'd be interested to learn what you find out; I've reached a deadend here.

 

[squirejohn]

Henry - Maybe La Belleville can better remember the location of the plugs he's seen. My memory is pretty bad and it's been several years since I've seen the musket at Fort Ti. In June I'll be going to Fort Ti and will check out the plug again.

 

[Henry]

I will be at " Fort Carillon " also ,
I am the old men in the Milice de Chambly .

See you there .

 

[Belleville]

French musket plug location. As I recall plug is about 5/8 to 3/4" in dia. and located on the right side of the stock about where the center of a patchbox would be if it were a rifle. My Dau-in-laws Dad has a such a musket with a plug. Recall that a 12 ga. breech-loading Zulu shotgun I had as a kid, made from a French M/L percussion musket, also had such a plug.

Doc Shaffer

 

[redwing]

I saw a "J.Henery & Sons" half stock Perc. .40 cal.
Plains rifle some years back. It had a plug about
2" behind the trigger gaurd. The fellow that owned
it said it was a Catholic rifle. He said a small
amount of holy water was put in the hole and plugged.
This was in case the owner met his fate in the back
country.
I don't know if this is true but sure got my attention.

Redwing :redthumb:

 

[Belleville]

Yea, recall something of the story that the plug was soaked in Holy Water. These stories are all seeminglg coming together as similiar. Would like to know more.
Doc Shaffer

 

[Henry]

I asked on a French forum , and a Belgian
( from Li

 

[squirejohn]

That's an interesting new twist. So then some French 18th century military muskets apparently had some administrative marking on the stock? This probably wasn't the case however with the .40c "Catholic gun".

 

[Henry]

The earliest mark that I know of is the
word " au Roy " written on the butt of the
pre 1717 guns .
I will look in the book " les armes a feu
r

 

[Henry]

Did not had the time to look at the book but
went to the " Fort de Chambly " , looked at the
Military Tulle gun there and there was the number
" 14 " just near the " au Roy " mark on the
stock , just as described earlier .
I took a photo , I will post it as soon as
I find out how to do it .

Now , it seems that the practice of erasing
the number on the stock is rather recent , lets
say mid XIX th cent . It could be that some gun
owners , in the XX th copied this practice while
restaurating and " improving " their old gun ?

 

[jelpmac]

Blessing Holes or Holy Water Plugs, aren't that at all and anyone attaching religious significance to them is blowing smoke. After 1799, on French Military Service Muskets, a plug on the right side of the stock/butt had State initials, the arsenal and date, to show it was a State property. Those rifles did not see service in the American Revolution since they were produced afterwards, regardless of what a seller may say. Don't fall for it or let them use that as a selling point.

 

[bpd303]

I know this is an old thread but I have to respectfully disagree with your first sentence. Why you ask...
My father in law (rest his soul) was a Frenchman who was evacuated at Dunkirk in WWII and fought with the Free French Army for the duration of the war. The only thing he had left from the conflict was a small vial of what he said was Holy Water blessed by a priest and carried in the buttstock of his rifle. I have no reason to not believe him and if the practice was in place then, I have no reason not to think it wasn't used in earlier times.

 

[Shine]

I have heard of this for a long time. I have seen several of these plugs. A lot of original French arms show up here. I actually had a special "business" rifle blessed by a chaplain once. Chaplain Madden was quite a cat he blessed it with a grin. :grin: