Civil War Black Wilderness Trapper Stereoview

[wganz]

Is that an India-made musket he's holding? More I look at it, more it does seem to be a modern pose-up. Good job if it is! If that's an India-made musket, the wrapping is I guess to keep it from exploding! (Referencing all the anti-India stuff we read here!)

Below is an enhanced reenactment of an attempt to proof an Indian musket. Seriously though, given the shape of the lock plus the barrel bands indicate a .mil surp musket

 

[wganz]

If you expand the image, you see the musket uses an early conversion technique, with the nipple screwed into the top of the barrel, a little right of center. The hammer is bent to reach the nipple. Also, the breech end of the barrel appears octagonal to me. So I would respectfully suggest it is not an 1842, or even an American gun at all. Maybe Belgian or Prussian.

Very possible, am reading a book on imported weapons for the ACW, and there were quite the menagerie of muskets imported for use. Some where judged unsuitable for combat use so may been surplused out. That may very well be what is in the pix.

 

[Notchy Bob]

@wganz

Thanks again for posting this interesting picture, and for adding the stereo images. The stereo picture had a caption stating Our mascot near Lake Adnnance. I tried searching for the lake and came up dry (no pun intended), pretty much, with most of the "hits" referencing just this photo. However, one of these indicated the picture was taken by M.H. Zahner Publishing. I followed that lead, and found M.H. Zahner was a Swiss photographer active in the United States in the 1880's and 1890's. So, we still don't have anything definitive, but I think we may be spiraling a little closer to the story this picture is trying to tell us.

How would we receive this fellow, if he showed up at one of our events or matches? He appears to be proud of his gun, and it looks like he bagged a rabbit or two.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[wganz]

I'm going with a typo in the location:

lake abundance montana at DuckDuckGo

or black river wilderness

black wilderness park at DuckDuckGo

both of those areas would match the terrain noted in the background. When I get back from Lowes, I'll do some online sleuthing for the photographer to see if there are an chronicles of his journeys to match up with either area.

 

[Jaeger]

So......this card with the double image is for one of those stereoscopic viewers....maybe circa 1890 to 1910.

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

Pretty sure the original image is not from the 1860's. Quality seems too good. Doesn't seem to be any movement blur as would be the case with someone smiling for a photograph in that era. You can't really hold very still unless your face is quite relaxed.. this is why there are no photographs of Lincoln smiling.

Also, there don't seem to be any visible lens aberrations on the edges and the contrast is too good for an uncoated lens of that era.

I'm not saying that it couldn't be an original photograph, but if it wasn't taken by a time traveler using a modern era film camera, then it had to have been done by a very competent photographer using state of the art equipment and having everything work out perfectly... and it never does.

 

[yonderin]

Boy, the places this forum can take you. There is a photo by M.H. Zahner (1856-1943) of one Annie Taylor and the barrel she went over Niagra Falls in on her 63rd birthday, Oct 21, 1901. Queen of The Mist is written on her barrel. First person to survive it.

I can find no mention of a Lake Adnndance, not even as a former name. Doesn't give a hit for anywhere in the world. Don't believe that proves much of anything except that I didn't locate it.

Griffith and Griffith formed in 1896. Mostly used American images in their work.

As suggested, the patches may be intended as crude camouflage or maybe just repairs. Maybe reinforcement or extra layer for kneeling in snow (don't really buy that second part myself but I dunno). I'm guessing the burlap and twine foot wrappings are just poor man's mukluks. If some reenactor staged that photo that's quite the mind for detail, not using some kind of leather or fur.

Absolutely can not pass any judgement of the gun but from what others have said, it may have been a conversion of some kind. Maybe barrel cut off and rebreeched to explain the different nipple location? All in all seems pretty well used to me.

From the picture, the cardstock looks like it might be authentic. Seems to match other stereoviews in pictures. Slightly curled from age and maybe less than optimum storage. What caught my eye is that in the original post, there is a fingerprint over the gents left hand. How long would it take for such a thing to appear, reacting with the paper or inks used? Again, quite the mind for detail if it's dummied up.

Maybe it is a really good fake but still and interesting item. Personally, I'm inclined to think it's authentic.

 

[toot]

Looks like he’s been blowing down the barrel…

and he knocked out a front tooth in doing it.?

 

[toot]

saw this listing on eBay & thought the pix on it was neat.
Going with a shortened 1842 .69 smoothbore.
Maby two or three front teeth?
Link to eBay offering. --==>> eBay listing link


View attachment 191232

 

[toot]

saw this listing on eBay & thought the pix on it was neat.
Going with a shortened 1842 .69 smoothbore.

Link to eBay offering. --==>> eBay listing link


View attachment 191232

if he sets on that snow covered log he will develop piles.

 

[toot]

he looks pure & simple, mostly simple!

 

[toot]

Below is an enhanced reenactment of an attempt to proof an Indian musket. Seriously though, given the shape of the lock plus the barrel bands indicate a .mil surp musket

View attachment 191322

that is the biggest tornado ever recorded!

 

[Mulebrain]

Definitely post civil war, and their description as such is very misleading

Oh and their price is nuts for this!

 

[TC Tommy]

His neck scarf seems a little blurred from a breeze and a long exposure. It looks like he's wearing
a plaid shirt with a button down collar. Maybe he's a uppity trend setting trapper.

 

[wganz]

Definitely post civil war, and their description as such is very misleading

Oh and their price is nuts for this!

Not my listing and is priced way way out of my budget.
Thought that it was a cool pix.
Just showed up in a search for “Springfield Musket”.

 

[springfield art]

I’ve seen this image somewhere. I don’t remember where. I’m not sure the subject is African-American, but just heavily tanned. I’m serious.

If you expand the image, you see the musket uses an early conversion technique, with the nipple screwed into the top of the barrel, a little right of center. The hammer is bent to reach the nipple. Also, the breech end of the barrel appears octagonal to me. So I would respectfully suggest it is not an 1842, or even an American gun at all. Maybe Belgian or Prussian.

The powder horn looks as if it has a band around the base. It has a very unusual appearance.

I’m going with an authentic antique photo of a poor hunter in Northern Europe, late 19th or early 20th century. He is shooting a muzzle loader for the same reason poor people in the backwoods were using them here during the same time period.

I could be wrong. It's been known to happen. Just ask my wife…

Notchy Bob

Good notes, Notch! I thought the same things. I'll be interested to see what the 'final judgement' is. I have a friend who replicates all sorts of historical impressions, and his photos are spot-on. (Boer War, Rev War, Irish Rebellion, etc. ) Details matter, I think this is a modern pose, but won't be disappointed either way!

 

[springfield art]

Seeing the Entire Stereo Card for the 1st time just now, it does look like an original. I only saw the cropped photo earlier. Thanks, all.

 

[springfield art]

Guys, looking again at this Image, it does appear to be a real antique stereo view, but those were popular up to about the 1st World War! The image could have been "set up" and taken in, say, the 1890's, meaning it was done as kind of a funny gag shot, but by photo people back then, not today by re-enactors. There were many stereo views of the Spanish-American War; rural areas back then didn't have movie theatres maybe, just ruminating on it. This has been a fun thread.

 

[Bullit]

So......this card with the double image is for one of those stereoscopic viewers....maybe circa 1890 to 1910.

It indeed does look like a stereoscopic card. I have the viewer and eighteen cards that go with it. They look just like that. Circa 1890's. They were my great grandma's who was born in 1879. You put the card in a wire holder which is attached to a wood frame, then slide the frame forward or back along a wooden shaft to get a 3D image through a viewer which is held against your face, akin to a set of welding goggles. Gives depth almost like you were there. Very cool.

 

[Notchy Bob]

Regarding the leg-wraps on the man in the photo, I just recently read about some hunters on the plains who had to endure a particularly cold winter, and they described wrapping their legs with feed sacks for warmth. I can't find the printed documentation now, but this photo of a buffalo hunter named Jesse Hendricks illustrates what they were talking about:



Yep, that's a Model 1874 Sharps (breechloader) and therefore unmentionable, but we're discussing the outfit. In any event, it's possible the leg wraps represent a serious attempt to use whatever was available to a fellow of limited means to keep warm.

I would go with the consensus here, that the image of the man in the original post probably dates to the very late 19th or early 20th century. As noted previously, we know a lot of people were still using muzzleloaders at that time. However, the caption of the stereoscopic card identifies the man "our mascot." I'm wondering if there might have been a crew or an expedition of some sort that brought this rag-tag fellow along to help out with menial tasks and provide some comic relief.

It's fun to speculate.

Notchy Bob