My nephew showed up last night and asked if I woild help him clean his ml. It's a T/C Hawken in 50 cal. He told me it might be a job and that he hadn't cleaned it since last December when he shot several times. I haven't looked in the barrel but the are around the lock is rusty. What should my first step be to loosen up the crud in the barrel? I gave him a pretty good tongue lashing and told him to go home and I would take care of it but now I'm thinking I will call him over and let him learn how hard this is gonna be. Thanks for your help guys!
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Cleaning help!
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woodse guy
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If you can find some Kroil I would spray that down the barrel and let it sit for awhile to get under the rust. Make sure you have a good cleaning rod and the right jags and brushes for cleaning a muzzle loader. The brushes are different from center fire brushes. A really big glass of tea and a gun vise and start scrubbing. Not really a easy way other then elbow grease. Will be a good learning experience for your nephew.
Got an auto battery charger?
This works slick!! http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/264212/post/1082320/hl//fromsearch/1/
A word of caution, more is not better
This works slick!! http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/264212/post/1082320/hl//fromsearch/1/
A word of caution, more is not better
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Bugflipper
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Definately let him do it. The young fellow needs to learn that you take care of stuff and if not it costs you money or time to get it back right, if it can be fixed.
I am a fan of electrolosys as well. I lap afterward anyhow with jewelers rouge on a bore mop, but I do that with every barrel anyhow. If you want to do it manually I have had good results with 0000 steel wool and balistol. For the bore just wrap a little steel wool around a smaller caliber bore brush. For the outside, just a little piece of the steel wool with the same on it. Once all is gone I use eezox oil on it inside and out and let it soak in for a day or so. Then get the excess off later.
I am a fan of electrolosys as well. I lap afterward anyhow with jewelers rouge on a bore mop, but I do that with every barrel anyhow. If you want to do it manually I have had good results with 0000 steel wool and balistol. For the bore just wrap a little steel wool around a smaller caliber bore brush. For the outside, just a little piece of the steel wool with the same on it. Once all is gone I use eezox oil on it inside and out and let it soak in for a day or so. Then get the excess off later.
don hepler
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One of the arguments for people who say, "I didn't have time", "It was late when I got home", is to tell them to do what I do. Sometimes I feel the same way, I take the lock off, clean and oil it, clean the nipple and barrel, then oil everything, and leave it disassembled until the next day. When you get time, you can do a better job, and reassemble it. I used to dread shooting, because of the cleaning chore, that followed, but breaking it down into two steps, makes the thought easier, and most times, I wind up cleaning and putting it back together anyway.
hanshi
Cannon
:thumbsup: I do that too.
I certainly understand the urge to give a "tongue lashing". I would be a little upset too. But now that the initial shock has worn off. Can I suggest. Yes, have him come over and clean his gun. While you sit back, supervise and enjoy a cool beverage. I have found that cleaning firearms is a good time to bond with our kids or other family members. Lots of time to talk about cars, girls, sports and most important our guns. Try not to make it a chore but another part of the experience.
Who knows maybe next time he will call you up and say "Hey I went out shooting today. Can I come over and clean my gun?" and that will mean he wants to spend time with his favorite uncle. :thumbsup:
Who knows maybe next time he will call you up and say "Hey I went out shooting today. Can I come over and clean my gun?" and that will mean he wants to spend time with his favorite uncle. :thumbsup:
tom deinek
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-1
I clean my bp rifles in the shower.
Besides other unpleasant considerations, it'd get too crowded.
I clean my bp rifles in the shower.
Besides other unpleasant considerations, it'd get too crowded.
Dave Rosenthal
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Step #1: I would make the young lad do it with you so he learns what NOT to do, and why!
Step #2 would be to introduce him to the "Rosey Range Clean" method of using Butch's Black Powder Bore Shine along with several sets of (2) cleaning patches down the muzzle on a worm (not a jag) with a Range Rod when he's ready to put the rifle into its' case. Get that chemical in there and the gun won't rust--and I've tested mine for 10 days! And the lock and hammer need some attention too with the chemical on the cleanest set of patches OR some paper toweling. When it stops foaming, it's clean enough to do "later". The only "trick" is not to forget for 10 months until it's hunting season again (like an idiot)!
A "Range Clean" with Butch's Black Powder Bore Shine has saved the day more than once around here. Never had to tell SWMBO that I can't take her to dinner after I get back from a competition...since the Bore Shine is doin' its' thing for days! The trick is to remove the fouling that causes the rust to form. Pumping Bore Shine through the nipple and over the hammer will do just that! 5 minutes at the range will save him a lot of elbow grease and/or money every time! It's all a matter of priorities....
Have some fun spending time with him...life is short...........
Dave
Step #2 would be to introduce him to the "Rosey Range Clean" method of using Butch's Black Powder Bore Shine along with several sets of (2) cleaning patches down the muzzle on a worm (not a jag) with a Range Rod when he's ready to put the rifle into its' case. Get that chemical in there and the gun won't rust--and I've tested mine for 10 days! And the lock and hammer need some attention too with the chemical on the cleanest set of patches OR some paper toweling. When it stops foaming, it's clean enough to do "later". The only "trick" is not to forget for 10 months until it's hunting season again (like an idiot)!
A "Range Clean" with Butch's Black Powder Bore Shine has saved the day more than once around here. Never had to tell SWMBO that I can't take her to dinner after I get back from a competition...since the Bore Shine is doin' its' thing for days! The trick is to remove the fouling that causes the rust to form. Pumping Bore Shine through the nipple and over the hammer will do just that! 5 minutes at the range will save him a lot of elbow grease and/or money every time! It's all a matter of priorities....
Have some fun spending time with him...life is short...........
Dave
Sadly, in my younger days I was guilty of the same thing. I wound up ruining a good barrel by not cleaning. A lot of kids just don't understand blackpowder. There used to the day and age of when I'm done, toss it in the corner. In an effort to maybe keep him in our ranks, work through it with him, let him do most of the cleaning and try to educate him. He may just learn a good lesson in all of this.
Jeff
Jeff
tom deinek
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"A lot of kids just don't understand blackpowder"
Not just kids.
Loaned a rifle to a bp guy who discharged it at the end of the day without cleaning it, then kept it in his pu truck 10 days (frozen @ night & warmed up while driving).
When I complained about the rust, he denied it was his fault, claiming you don't need to clean ANY gun after just one shot.
Think I have lent a bp rifle to anyone else?
Not just kids.
Loaned a rifle to a bp guy who discharged it at the end of the day without cleaning it, then kept it in his pu truck 10 days (frozen @ night & warmed up while driving).
When I complained about the rust, he denied it was his fault, claiming you don't need to clean ANY gun after just one shot.
Think I have lent a bp rifle to anyone else?
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survivor45 said:
now there's a smart fellow
Well, he got lucky. I shot some black powder residue cleaner down the barrel and let it set for a half hour before he got here. I handed him a cold soda and a brush. It took him about 15 minutes of scrubbing then a hot water bath and the barrel didn't look too bad! We went through about 20 dry patches until we got a clean one then we ran some seasoning patches down it and wiped it back dry again. Rifling was shiney all the way to the bottom and looked good. Worst part was cleaning the rust and crud around the nipple. It took him a good half hour to get that cleaned. When we were done he still had half a soda left. Come to find out he really wants to learn how to trap and smoke meat. Pretty good conversation and he is coming back to help me put up some fur so he can learn the whole process. I'm thinking I might havejust got me a new buddy in the shop! Ha! None of my girls like this sort of thing so I guess its a good thing. I can pass my knowledge on to someone that wants to learn.
:thumbsup:
Give your nephew's address to the Green Mountain Barrel Company. They will send him a certificate of appreciation for not cleaning a T.C. Hawken LOL. That company made a small fortune selling replacement drop in barrels.
Seriously. I believe this not cleaning thing started with our grandfathers going from black to smokeless and then non corrosive primers and a lost generation to pass on the information. Then all of a sudden in the 60's or 70's we bought blackpowder replicas and our daddies never saw a muzzleloader let alone know how to advises us. Thank God for Muzzleloading books back in the day.
Bob
Seriously. I believe this not cleaning thing started with our grandfathers going from black to smokeless and then non corrosive primers and a lost generation to pass on the information. Then all of a sudden in the 60's or 70's we bought blackpowder replicas and our daddies never saw a muzzleloader let alone know how to advises us. Thank God for Muzzleloading books back in the day.
Bob
Snakebite
45 Cal.
He sounds like a good kid, just needs the right guidance. Be careful, he might start brining his friends around to learn something too. :thumbsup:
fearless51
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Theres alot to be learned even by people like myself that think they know a thing or two. One of my buddies told me that a good way to check to see if you are getting any kind of buildup in your barrel is to run a patch saturated with Hoppes #9 smokeless solvent down the barrel and check the patch for odd colors, streaks, etc. I don't mind trying something out and had given it a try and did notice it was getting some odd streaks out of the previously cleaned barrel. It became part of my cleaning ritual or at least something I would do once a week. One day I had just run the Hoppes saturated patch down the barrel when my wife called me from upstairs, I walked away from the rifle and never gave it another thought as the barrel had been previously cleaned I felt everything was OK, no problem to take care of. The next morning I went back down into my shop to finish up what I was working on and remembered the patch of Hoppes sitting down in my barrel. I grabbed the cleaning rod and the barrel and tried to pull the rod out...nothing doing, I pulled harder...no go, I gave the rod a good smack on the top and got a better grip on everything and really gave an effort to get it out and it finally gave way coming out and showing a patch very dark and rust colored, I was really upset about something I had obviously overlooked and that was Hoppes #9 is mostly water and I was probably lucky if I managed to not ring the barrel. I talked to some of the guys the next day and they told me another story about one of the gunsmiths that actually did ring a barrel using Hoppes #9, and if anybody ought to know better he should. Hoppes does make a good blackpowder solvent and it probably has water in it too, it probably has water solvent oil also which sort of counter acts the water. Regardless I don't leave any patch sitting in my barrels for any length of time, I do swab my barrel between shots and use a solution of dish detergent, water soluble oil, and water after which I run a dry patch down the barrel both sides before preparing for the next shot. If that barrel is going to sit for more than a coffee break I run a patch with Ballistol down the barrel, which is what I do at the end of the day as well. I've noticed that since performing this method I have not seen any dark streaks on that first dry patch run down the barrel before snapping a cap and staring a days shooting and have been doing this for a good three months now.
After reading your story I figure I should mention to the newcomers to black powder who have experience with cartridge guns, Hoppe's makes two totally different #9 solvents.
The old familiar solvent for nitro powders is about useless for cleaning a black powder rifle.
The kerosene based solvent doesn't dissolve black powder fouling at all. It does produce a nice gooey mess though.
The Hoppe's #9 that is made for black powder, says so on the label. This is the kind Kinman was writing about.
Why they called it #9 beats me. It leads to a lot of confusion when folks are talking about cleaning their black powder guns with Hoppe's #9.
Digressing a little, at one time Thompson Center made a #13 solvent and IMO they choose the name wisely.
A specific test I did using the TC #13 solvent proved to me that it will form rust in a clean bore so fast that running a dry patch in the bore immediately after swabbing it with #13 will leave rusty streaks on the once clean patch.
The old familiar solvent for nitro powders is about useless for cleaning a black powder rifle.
The kerosene based solvent doesn't dissolve black powder fouling at all. It does produce a nice gooey mess though.
The Hoppe's #9 that is made for black powder, says so on the label. This is the kind Kinman was writing about.
Why they called it #9 beats me. It leads to a lot of confusion when folks are talking about cleaning their black powder guns with Hoppe's #9.
Digressing a little, at one time Thompson Center made a #13 solvent and IMO they choose the name wisely.
A specific test I did using the TC #13 solvent proved to me that it will form rust in a clean bore so fast that running a dry patch in the bore immediately after swabbing it with #13 will leave rusty streaks on the once clean patch.
