Cleaning Kibler Woodsrunner?

[Flintlock Fellow]

Some people obsess about keeping their guns looking brand new,and spend hours overcleaning them. To what end? In 20-25 years all our nice guns will be wall hangers anyway, selling for 20 cents on the dollar of what we paid because all us old enthusiasts will have died off and younger generations will have little to no interest (or powder, caps, and flints) for shooting them. They will be seen as nice novelties of an earlier generation.
I don’t mind if my guns get a few blemishes from use and nor being cleaned to a state of spotlessness. I want them to look a little used.
Also, the longer it takes to clean one, the less likely I ammto get it out to shoot because I don’t feel like spending lot of time cleaning a gun I may only have fired a very few shots through.

I respectfully disagree with your perspective. While it’s true that some firearms might end up as collectibles or wall hangers over time, I don’t believe that their value—whether monetary or personal—will diminish as much as you suggest. There will always be a niche of enthusiasts who appreciate these guns for their craftsmanship, historical value, and shooting experience, and I think future generations will continue to pick up the torch, even if on a smaller scale.

As for cleaning and maintenance, I see it as more than just preserving aesthetics—it’s about respect for the tool and ensuring its longevity. A well-maintained firearm can outlast its owner and continue to perform for decades, if not centuries. That doesn’t mean they have to look pristine or unused, but careful cleaning and upkeep allow them to function and be enjoyed as intended. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve witnessed guys have issues at the range that stem from improper or inadequate cleaning of their guns (most frequently cap locks).

I also disagree that cleaning has to be an obstacle to enjoyment. Personally, I find it part of the hobby. Taking the time to clean a gun after use allows me to connect with it, appreciate its mechanics, and ensure it’s ready for the next outing. Of course, I respect your preference for letting your guns show signs of honest use—but for me, keeping mine in excellent condition is part of the pride of ownership.

 

[Sagebrush]

I've been burning black powder for fifty years. Unless you've got a hooked breach and barrel wedges (and you don't) removing the barrel is not something you want to do for cleaning.

My recent-built Kibler fowler will probably never have the barrel pulled off it.

If you decide to, you must know how to remove the barrel without breaking the stock. Jim has a video on it.

Clean it with soapy water, followed by drying patches and a swipe of Balistol or WD40 followed by a dry patch.

 

[Swagman]

Ah, the age old debate regarding cleaning methods for your muzzle loader!! In my early days I tried every fad and gadget that came along, I have been shooting a JP Henry Trade Rifle for the last 35 years or so and have never removed the barrel. I use wet patches until they come out clean, remove the lock and give it a squirt of WD40, wipe it down with Breakfree as well as down the barrel, never had a problem in all that time.

 

[mrfritz44]

A small square of black Gorilla tape works well to seal the touch hole and works better than a round toothpick, even after a vigorous end of season cleaning work multiple bore soakings.

 

[French Colonial]

A small square of black Gorilla tape works well to seal the touch hole and works better than a round toothpick, even after a vigorous end of season cleaning work multiple bore soakings.

Not in my experience, buy the bamboo toothpick/skewers and never use the cheap toothpicks.

Although I have been using the rare earth magnet over the touchhole with the hose in the water thing lately.

 

[Osseon]

The issue for me cleaning without using barrel removal is that I have to be extra careful of not getting water, WD40, or other bad fluids in contact with the stock which will stain or damage the wood over time. It also feels like I spend a lot of patches down the barrel to remove all the gunk. My Kibler colonial has pretty deep grooves that holds a lot of gunk. I don't clean my barrel while shooting, I only apply grease to each patch (Bees wax + Olive oil).

Using a traditional method, I'll have to run water + ballistol, or water + dish soap down the barrel 2-4 times. Then 10 patches or various other attachments like bristles and mops to the rod to get it clean. Then I have another 2-3 patches for oiling.

If I just remove a screw and 4 pins, I can put my barrel in a bucket, pump water through it with 1 patch, and it will be clean in less than 1 minute of pumping. I run a mop down the barrel to dry it. Then 2-3 patches for oiling. Overall, I feel like I'm not missing any spots with pumping, using less material, and there will be no potential damage to the stock if something leaks or drips onto it.

Again I must say my pins are rounded to not chip or damage the barrel pins holders, I don't understand how they could be damaged at all? I've read so many times people say you can damage your barrel pin holes, but this has never been demonstrated to me with evidence, it's just a story that people tell like MANY myths that surround muzzleloading.

 

[Antelope Pete]

I don't like to remove the barrel because wood, even maple is relatively soft and with the pins being taken out and put back in over and over and over again will make the holes bigger. Guns with escutcheoned slots for keys were designed for that. I don't think pinned stocks were.
I was concerned about water etc. getting between the barrel and stock so I lay the gun down and don't see much risk with that.

 

[smoothshooter]

The issue for me cleaning without using barrel removal is that I have to be extra careful of not getting water, WD40, or other bad fluids in contact with the stock which will stain or damage the wood over time. It also feels like I spend a lot of patches down the barrel to remove all the gunk. My Kibler colonial has pretty deep grooves that holds a lot of gunk. I don't clean my barrel while shooting, I only apply grease to each patch (Bees wax + Olive oil).

Using a traditional method, I'll have to run water + ballistol, or water + dish soap down the barrel 2-4 times. Then 10 patches or various other attachments like bristles and mops to the rod to get it clean. Then I have another 2-3 patches for oiling.

If I just remove a screw and 4 pins, I can put my barrel in a bucket, pump water through it with 1 patch, and it will be clean in less than 1 minute of pumping. I run a mop down the barrel to dry it. Then 2-3 patches for oiling. Overall, I feel like I'm not missing any spots with pumping, using less material, and there will be no potential damage to the stock if something leaks or drips onto it.

Again I must say my pins are rounded to not chip or damage the barrel pins holders, I don't understand how they could be damaged at all? I've read so many times people say you can damage your barrel pin holes, but this has never been demonstrated to me with evidence, it's just a story that people tell like MANY myths that surround muzzleloading.

A proper diameter breech plug scraper that is contoured to match the face of the breech plug is a necessity.
I never remove my barrels. One of them has had heavy use for over 24 years. At least 2,000 shots. Cleaned many times, sometimes fired and cleaned at least 3 days a week. It only takes me about 10 minutes to clean any of my BP long guns.
Entire bore, breech plugs to muzzles are still pristine.
I generally clean with 70% isopropyl alcohol followed up by running a patch down the bore with diluted Ballistol, Hoppes #9, or Break Free CLP.

 

[smoothshooter]

So I just purchased a prestine kibler woodsrunner, almost too pretty to shoot. wanted to know what's everyone's approach to cleaning woods runner. the barrel is pinned in and I assume I'd have to remove the barrel etc. I've cleaned many other BP rifles...

Not necessary to remove the barrel. The more of an ordeal you make cleaning the gun, the fewer days you will shoot it because you will be dreading the clean up.
I never take more than 10 minutes to clean any of my long BP guns, and they have been fired and cleaned many, many times.
Bores are still pristine.

 

[mrfritz44]

Anyone know the proper breech plug scraper for a Woodsrunner? I have a rounded scraper that came as a 54 caliber set and it doesn't feel like it's scraping anything the single time I used it.

 

[#BPBReloadingFFL]

Cleaning a flintlock muzzleloader they're all the same nothing special!
Cleaning up percussion Muzzleloader all the same, nothing special. Just a tad different from the flintlock.

I'm sure anyone was to use a search function at the top of the form . You'd find about 7,000 threads on the exact same subject.

 

[Osseon]

I don't like to remove the barrel because wood, even maple is relatively soft and with the pins being taken out and put back in over and over and over again will make the holes bigger. Guns with escutcheoned slots for keys were designed for that. I don't think pinned stocks were.
I was concerned about water etc. getting between the barrel and stock so I lay the gun down and don't see much risk with that.

To quote from the person who built it:
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/kibler-kit-assembly-and-carving.133549/post-1863327

I make sure all barrel pins are easily removable because I believe you should remove your barrel at least once a year to check for corrosion underneath. I don't buy the notion of never removing a pinned barrel. In my case, I make the pins a little short so when tapped in flush with one side of the stock, the pin is short of flush on the other. That leaves a little hole that can guide a pin punch to tap the pin out without risking it sliding off the pin and damaging the stock. Both ends of my barrel pins are chamfered slightly so they don't catch any wood when being removed or installed.

Anyways, I usually remove the barrel for the pump clean if I don't plan on shooting again for a while. Being in Florida, there is a lot of humidity, so much so that metal rusts just by being exposed to air lol.

 

[Texcl2]

I don’t see the point of a breach plug scraper, for everyday cleaning. I always lean towards PC, I have read lots of accounts of our ancestors pouring water down the barrel, using tow ect and none taking the barrel out unless it was for repairs. If there is a reference to this I’d love to read it and I say that respectfully.

 

[AZshot]

I've been shooting muzzle loaders since I was 13. That's coming up on 50 years. A few things I've learned about cleaning, if you use water like I always do, to start out. I pour tap water in the bore with a toothpick tapped into the touchhole. Pour it out after 10 min, do it 2 more times, then put a patch through to start wiping out any that remained goey. Then 1-2 more water in the bore for 2-3 minutes, move inside to patches and a jag.

1. Brushes are usually not necessary, but some rifling holds the fouling in the corners more, so a few runs with a bristle brush or tow gets it all out faster than just patches.
2. I've never scraped a breach. Never heard of it until the internet era, mostly in the past 20 years.
3. No solvents work better than just tepid water. But adding a shot of detergent or Ballistol seems to help the water some.
4. Hot water can cause flash rusting in a minute after you pour it out. Don't use hot. Never use boiling as some suggest. I used to use hot when I was young, but learned the hard way about flash rust.
5. When patches come out clean, protect the bore with any oil. I like CLP Breakfree. I often use WD-40 some before that, and after the water and patches.