Cleaning subs vs BP

[Mad Professor]

O.K. I know this has probably been beaten to death. :dead:

I have only shot real BP in my MLs. :grin:

To those who have shot a sub and BP what are your experiences with cleaning: water/solvents, fouling, rust/pitting etc,

Reason I ask is because someone told me how much easier it was to clean a sub and no "rotten egg" smell.

What is easier than water and a patch?

P.S. you will not convert me to pyrodex, 777, shockleys snake powder,.........


P.P.S. I'll start, with BP water works well with a bit of soap. Dry the barrel and add your favorite rust preventative. Lots of variations on this but simple.

 

[TFoley]

O.K. I know this has probably been beaten to death. :dead:

As you note, not only :dead: but :stir:

And since you don't shoot the subs, what purpose would all this :dead: and :stir: serve?

Slow news day over there in Wormhill, eh?

tac

 

[Rat Trapper]

I really like triple seven 2F for my deer hunting rifles. I use Goex in those of smaller caliber. Clean up is the same. Soap and water and a light weight oil down the bore when done and wipe the metal parts with oil. To do a good job of cleaning takes the same amount of time.

 

[mooman76]

Really depends on the sub. Some aren't easier to clean and some still smell, Pyro does. I used to clean it the same as a regular gun before I was told I needed to be using water but still never had a problem with it corroding. I use water now and never considered it harder to clean BP guns, just have to be a little more thorough.

 

[cynthialee]

same cleaning procedure and process
there is no change at all in my cleaning Pyrodex or black powder

as for smell...
Pyrodex smells much worse than black powder during clean up. Other imitation powders I couldn't tell you. Never shot them.

 

[necchi]

It's the same,
Use soap and water,
Clean it till it's clean.
Any claim by sub's that it's easier to clean is :bull:

 

[TennesseeJed]

If I didn't have a local source for Goex, I would have no problem with using Triple 7. I bought a box of ammo and muzzleloading supplies at an auction one time and there were two cans of Triple 7 in the box. I've shot most of one of the cans, it shoots good and cleans up good as well.

 

[Cowboy2]

Go with Triple Seven. I love my flintlock, but the time and effort it takes to clean it, compared to my caplocks, is ridiculous (and is why the caplocks see a lot more range time than the flinter). Conservatively, BP takes 5-6 times the time and effort to clean as opposed to Triple Seven. With the later, just run a half dozen or so patches soaked with lukewarm water down the barrel, and she's clean. And unless you live in the jungle, you can get away with letting it sit a few days, unlike BP.

Someone who has never used it will chime in about the dreaded Triple Seven crud ring. That's only a concern with inline rifles, not traditional weapons. Even then, it ain't a big deal (my dad's got one), and certainly a lot less hassle than even light BP residue.

 

[Mad Professor]

O.K. I know this has probably been beaten to death. :dead:

As you note, not only :dead: but :stir:

And since you don't shoot the subs, what purpose would all this :dead: and :stir: serve?

Slow news day over there in Wormhill, eh?

tac

Yes Sir I am.

Beating the horse, stirring the pot, and opening the can.

I REALLY do not know? I shoot goex or swiss.

Have had people tell me how much greater 777 , pyro, or is....

I have heard about 777 giving a thicker crud ring, but I get those with Goex when I use conicals, How much worse with 777? That is what I am asking.

 

[Adui]

Well I've shot primarily pyrodex, and only pyro for so long I don't remember the cleaning difficulty of Goex. I do know that Pyro cleans up as described on here. (Though I hate to say it but I tried dish soap and found it noticeably more difficult to use than the simple green solution I have used for some time now)

Honestly I don't believe there is a difference, other than the solutions used. I believe if you have the right solution for your preferred powder your cleanup will be as easy as any ones.

PS going to make some moose milk and try it sometime soon..

 

[George T.]

I agree with you 100%! Also the danger is that if not cleaned well they rust just as bad as the real McCoy!

Geo. T.

 

[Big Boar 58]

please educate me. why is the crud ring with 777 only an issue in inlines?

 

[Rokon]

I've been shooting Alliant's Black MZ in competition for 2 years in my caplocks. It is as accurate as Swiss in every caliber from .25 to .62, doesn't develop heavy fouling, cleans up quickly with Hornady's One Shot and Alliant claims it's "virtually non-corrosive." My patch lube is Shenandoah Valley and I can shoot a whole match without cleaning. It also fires in flinters, but I sense a ever so slight lag compared to BP. The only downside to BlackMZ is the cost which runs about $25/pound. Why do I use it? Because I can shoot a complete match without cleaning and maintain a constant bore condition.

 

[Rat Trapper]

Go with Triple Seven.

Someone who has never used it will chime in about the dreaded Triple Seven crud ring. That's only a concern with inline rifles, not traditional weapons. Even then, it ain't a big deal (my dad's got one), and certainly a lot less hassle than even light BP residue.

This is very true! The crude ring does not affect traditional rifles as the patch/bullet lube keeps things soft. Even in a inline rifle if you wipe after every shot it is no problem.

 

[Patocazador]

Member 'Kentucky Windage' has found that using percussion caps or muzzleloading 209 primers vs. regular 209 primers seems to lessen or eliminate the crud ring. His conclusion seems to tie the crud ring to higher ignition temperatures.

 

[Cowboy2]

I can't say for sure, but my guess would be that it has something to do with the state of the powder. Triple Seven comes in two different forms, loose powder and cylindrical "pellets". The loose powder (be it 2f or 3f) is loose, like your run of the mill BP. This is what is used in traditional weapons (most of which won't ignite pellets). The pellets are a bonded cylinder with a flash channel running its length down the center, made for the caliber size in question, and is what is used in modern weapons. If you want to load 100gr, you drop two 50gr pellets down the barrel.

Why the loose vs pellet state would create a difference in fouling near the chamber, who knows? My guess would be that either the bonding agent or the powder's physical state make some sort of change in burning/fouling characteristics. The much hotter 209 primers used for pellets might play a role, or be the ultimate cause, as well.

Regardless, I've cleaned the ring before, and its not a big deal at all. A couple of dripping water patches cleans it up in nothing flat. Certainly much easier than even a single shot's worth of Swiss fouling in my flintlock.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

I really like triple seven 2F for my deer hunting rifles. I use Goex in those of smaller caliber. Clean up is the same. Soap and water and a light weight oil down the bore when done and wipe the metal parts with oil. To do a good job of cleaning takes the same amount of time.

^^^^^THIS^^^^^

Best answer of the entire thread thus far IMHO!

I will add the following, and this is for the OP:

Due to something as simple as the marketing (brain-washing from manufacturers) some here are guilty of undergoing in the name of laziness, some (NOT ALL) shooters who use the subs aren't as much of a stickler for cleanliness as those of us who use real black powder. I can relay horror stories of crusted-up bores filled with Pyrodex residue that turned to CEMENT!

Shootists like myself learn to vary the amount & types of lube depending upon the temperature and humidity conditions present at time of ignition. These little tricks help to avoid the formation of crud rings in the first place, as well as keep a rifle firing all day long without wiping, provided you maintain a pristine bore with NO rust pitting to grab the crud....

Dave
NRA Distinguished Expert in Muzzleloading Rifle & Pistol