Cloth patch and bullet????

[t1952ap]

Hi I'm new here. Is it possible to shoot cloth patched bullets instead of sabots or bore size minnies?

 

[jtmattison]

Welcome aboard Van.

It is possible to shoot patched bullets. There are some on here who have shot undersized Lee REAL bullets patched with lubed cloth.

I thought about trying it myself with a .50 cal REAL in my .54.

HD

 

[Idaho Ron]

There are a few of us here that Paper patch bullets. I use 25% cotton paper to wrap mine. I don't think you would need the full cloth patch. I get great accuracy with mine. Ron

 

[Zonie]

Sure it's possible, but I'm not sure how accurate they would be.

Most of the slugs and minnies I'm aware of are made to be loaded with just lube on them so they are pretty close to bore size before they are fired.
I doubt that those would easily loaded with even a .005 or thinner patch on them.

Patched balls are usually .005 to .010 less than bore size. When you add twice the patch thickness the combination is larger than the rifling size so they fit very tightly in the bore.

The area of contact between the ball and barrel is quite small so it is not real hard to deform it when you load. Even then, with a tight fitting ball/patch combination many of us find it necessary to use a short starter just to get the patched ball into the bore.

With a slug, with it's greatly increased length of contact and a tight patch it would probably need a hammer to get it started.
Of course that would probably mash the nose of the slug a bit so the accuracy would be poor.

Remember that the patch does more than just grab the rifling and ball. It also fills the rifling grooves to keep the leakage of gas to an absolute minimum.
That task pretty much rules out using any patch material that is thinner than the rifling grooves are deep, so, if you had a slug that was .005 under bore size and patched it with some .0025 thick patching it would fit the bore but it wouldn't fill the grooves to seal them.

The paper patch could be mentioned as it is used with slugs but, IMO they work well only in a barrel that is made for them.
A large part of making the barrel for paper patches is to have very shallow rifling grooves.
My Schuetzen shoots paper patched slugs very well, but the rifling is fast (1:18) and the grooves are shallow (.003 deep).

All in all, I don't think patching a slug in most current muzzleloaders is a practical idea.

 

[nw_hunter]

I shoot 420 gr. 50 cal. Shocker bullets cloth patched in my 54 Hawken, and get a purdy good group with them.

 

[t1952ap]

Thanks for all the info. I'm considering shooting .429 caliber bullets (240 grain) in my .45 side lock rifle. I have .005,.010, and .020 thick patches to try. I have yet to go to the range to see which patches will work. NW Hunter, what thickness patches do you use. Thanks again.

 

[BrownBear]

I'll extend my welcome too, Van. You'll find a bunch of knowledgeable folks here who are more than willing to share their experience.

Sounds like you've got large doses of curiosity and creativity in your makeup. My mind runs along the same lines, so I'm looking forward to what you come up with.

Keep us posted on your results!

 

[nw_hunter]

You would have to ask me that :grin: I just got off the phone with my shooting buddy (Rebel)He is pretty sure we were using .020 patches.

The patches were a little chewed up, but I was surprised at the groups we were getting at 50 yds.

I wish I could locate some more of these Lyman Shocker bullets.At 420 grs. they should put a dent in an Elk :wink: Some of the online stores had them listed, but unavailble.

 

[jtmattison]

I wish I could locate some more of these Lyman Shocker bullets.At 420 grs. they should put a dent in an Elk :wink: Some of the online stores had them listed, but unavailble.

I tried to find some to no avail a couple years ago. Apparently they made a mould for them too but my searches for one have come up empty. Lyman makes a mould for a thick skirted Minnie that resembles the Shocker. I have it in .54 but I haven't worked up a load with them yet.

HD

 

[nw_hunter]

I stumbled across a bag of them in a local sporting goods store.

They were cast by a small local company, but I think they went out of business. I would love to locate and try to buy the molds from them.

 

[Vaino]

If a proper sized conical were used w/ a patch, it would eliminate bore leading that results from "unclad" conicals. My TC "Hawken" w/ 1:48 twist always leaded the bore using top end elk loads......Fred

 

[t1952ap]

Flehto, that's what I was trying to accomplish, not leading the bore. I wonder if powerbelt copperclads would help avoid leading? Thanks

 

[paulvallandigham]

Van: If you shoot Patched Round Balls, the Lead NEVER touches the barrel. That is how to avoid leading.

With bullets, you can paper patch them, but they have to be sized smaller to allow for the wraps of the paper around the bullet. This also avoids leading. Paper patching was popular beginning in the 1840s, with the target shooters.

 

[t1952ap]

I tried out the patched bullets yesterday at the range. I didn't have time to work up a load or worry about grouping. The bullets fit tightly in the barrel with .010 patches and left a clean hole in the target paper. Now I'll have to spend some time trying to hit the bullseye. Thanks for your suggestions!

 

[longcruise]

Some of the old slug guns came with an X shaper paper patch cutter. It cut out a cross with four arms and the sum of the width of the four arms equalled the diameter of the bullet. The paper cross was set dead center on the end of the bore and the bullet started so the cour arms folded up and formed a paper patch. Only seen one of those guns in action. It was in the .38 or .40 caliber range and the shooter was doing pretty good with it. I always thought it would be interesting to try with my 1/48 .50 cal but have never come across a slug with the right diameter to make it work.