clraning

[crs1945]

Hi,
I am new to this forum. I have read on several message boards that a muzzleloading B.P. rifle should be taken apart ( muzzle from frame, breech plug removed ) and cleaned with soapy water following firing. Is this true and if so should it be done after Every firing ( upon completion )?? I have a 45cal CVA with a Jukar barrel which I just got at a gun show. Any help would be great. Thanks.

Muzzie

 

Muzzie,.... "NO"!!... "NEVER-EVER" attempt to remove the breech-plug on a "Jukar", "CVA", or "Traditions", side-lock muzzleloader!!

Ther is "no need" to remove the breech-plug on a traditional-style side-hammer muzzleloader to "clean" it,... in fact those companys mentioned above warn "AGINST" even "attempt'n" to remove the breech-plugs on ther rifles!!

Modern "inline" rifles are the "ONLY" muzzleloaders thet must have the breech-plugs removed for proper clean'n (yore "Jukar" ain't an "inline")!!

 

Muzzie,.... I reckon I should expand on my 1st. reply to yore question.

1. YES!!.. you WILL need to clean yore rifle when yore done shoot'n it for the day.

2. You might even "swab" with a "wet patch" followed with a "dry patch" between each shot while yore shoot'n it, to achieve the "BEST" accuracy from yore rifle.

3. "NEVER"!!!!.. run a DRY-patch down the bore of a FOULED-bore!!

4. Always use a "lubed-patch" when shoot'n roundballs (lube can consist of, spit, Crisco, or any of the commercial-lubes sold on the market today!!

5. The "Jukar" was a very inexpensive rifle to start with, and is no longer be'n produced (yore's is probly 20+ years-old), so use ONLY "light loads" (40-50 grs.) of blackpowder or a blackpowder-substitute for yore "charges"!!

6. Be sure to have a proper-size "clean'n jag" thet fits the bore of yore rifle, before you start shoot'n it for the first time!!

7. Most of us leave the barrel on the stock, when clean'n!! ('cept for 1/2 stock rifles with removeable "wedge-keys" thet hold the barrel to the stock!!) You will find thet yore "Jukar" has a "pinned" stock!!

8. WELCOME!!... to the "world of blackpowder"!! :applause: ::

 

[crs1945]

Thanks rollingb for the advice. Will have to pick up a muzzle loading rifle book. Have been getting info on this rifle via the web.
Muzzie By the way it should be cleaning not clraning.

 

[Zonie]

As RollingB said, a lot of people don't take apart their rifle if it has a pinned stock.
Their reason for this is they don't want to enlarge the holes in the stock.
Having said that, I will say I often remove the pins on my fullstock longrifles because I don't like the idea of water getting down under the barrel and doing it's thing with my barrel or the wood.
A few things to think about if you decide to un-pin the stock.

The barrel tang screw on guns without a hooked breech must be removed. Use a screw driver that fits the screw slot or you will mess up the screw head. This screw by the way doesn't have to be super tight but some people tighten it down like it is going to hold up their Buick. When reassembling, don't commit their error by over tightening the screw.

The pin you use to punch or "drift" out the stock pins must be smaller in diameter than the guns pins.

Removing the pins takes only light taps on the punch pin. Do not hit it hard or you may gouge the wood in the holes.

The pins are installed FROM the Right side of the stock (with the gun held in a firing position) so remove them by tapping them out from the left side of the stock.

Keep track of which pin came out of which hole. Sometimes their matched for their length and diameter to only that hole and no others.

If the barrel doesn't want to easily lift out of the stock, you may have missed a pin. Do not force it!

If the pins and the tang screw and the lock screws are out and the barrel still doesn't want to lift out check the underside of the muzzle cap. Some guns also have a screw going thru it into the barrel.

The Lock Screws are the 1 or 2 screws which go thru the stock from the left side and hold the lock in place.
Some guns (including expensive custom ones) have the upper rear "Lock Screw" going thru the barrels breech plug tang. You cannot tell if this is true until you have once removed the barrel. Remove this screw (or better yet both of them so you can clean the lock) to prevent possible damage to the stock.

 

[Claude Mathis]

By the way it should be cleaning not clraning.

I always find typos in my posts after they've been posted. You can always edit your post by clicking on the "Edit" button.

 

rollingb
'scuse me, but did YOu say swab between shots for best accuracy?????? ::
I cain't hardly believe my eyes. ::
I ALWAYS swab between shots. :haha:

 

Odd - no one I shoot with, has ever had to clean between shots to maintain accuracy. We clean after the day's shooting, but never between shots. I've been shooting muzzleloading rifles/shotguns and pistols since 1972 and neve cleaned or swabbed between shots except on a bet about accuracy. Never did it again as we found it wasn't necessary.
: Our rifles. both flint and percussion, hold 1 1/2" to 2" at 100yds.- first 5 or last 5 of the day- doesn't matter. Each time you load, that patch/ball combo cleans the one just shot.
Daryl

 

[sse]

Daryl - I know that some follow this practice using spit for a lube. So far that hasn't worked for me. A few more details as to lube, patch, bore diam., etc. would be appreciated.

Regards, sse

 

Maxi,.... I figgered you'd be surprised to hear "ME" (of all people) reccomend "swab'n 'tween shots"!! ::

My reccomendation of do'n so, has some "hidden agendas" for BP shooters "new" to the sport.
A "new" shooter's first experience with a muzzleloader should be as "hassle-free" and "enjoyable" as possible. So, with thet in mind, here are a few reasons "why" I reccomend a "new" shooter to swab 'tween shots!!

1. Less likely, to dump powder down the bore which contains a still "live ember" in the breech.

2. Less likely, to "stick" a too-dry patched ball somewhere in the bore. (and "NOT" seated down on the ball proper)

3. ... and "when" the "new" shooter has no "supervision" while learn'n the "qwirks" of his riflegun!

After a fella has some experience with BP, he is bound to try different "lubes" and different "techniques" (thet's jest the "nature" of us BP shooters )!!
Some shooters such as Daryl, Cut-Fingers, "me", and some others,... have found excellent "consistancy", "ease of load'n", and "excellent accuracy", by NOT swab'n 'tween shots.
I think most or, maybe all of us non-swabbers, have also found "spit" to work very well as our prefered "lube"!
I still use my "bear-oil/bee's-wax" lube when hunt'n, 'cause it doesn't dry-out as fast as "spit" does.

When shoot'n "competition", or, at the range jest have'n fun,... I have found no need to swab!!

I have used "spit" to clean my rifle, followed with a "b'o/b'w" lubed patch after a day's shoot'n while in the field, and have not had any "ill-effects' to my rifleguns (I do give'er a "good-clean'n" when I git home, and for extended-storage). I started do'n things this way when I first became associated with the "AMM" and had such good luck, thet I found no reason to adopt any other "system". ::

It seems as tho nobuddy does things exactly the "same way" (even when use'n the SAME "components"), thet's why I suggest thet shooters "new" to this sport start out with the "basic-system" of,.... swab'n 'tween shots, use'n a ball'starter, pre-lubed pre-cut patchs, and etc.
Thru "experience", and "experment'n",.... a fella will eventually find "his own system" of git'n the best accuracy from his muzzleloader with the least hassle and accouterments!! :applause:

 

Must say, RB has some good points, especially for new shooters "Not under the Wing" of old shooters.
: We keep an 'eye' for new shooters to help them get on the way to becoming proficient with their new rifles. There are those who 'slip' by and usaully have massive problems, as detailed by RB.
: A good place to start with a patched ball, is .010" under bore size with a 'brushed' denim patch available at yard-goods stores. This would be a .490 in a .50, .440 in a .45's etc.
: That said, I'll add here that most of the guys shoot .535's in their .54's, most common up here in the bush as they also are used for Moose. The .54 is a good moose rifle, extending the .50's range to 125yds or so. The big aminals can be taken with smaller bores, but .54 does a good job. Excellent shooters can take them with .50's but that's about the samllest I'd recommend, and then only to 75yds or closer.
: There are a few .50's while I shoot a .45 flint gun. I'm not using it for hunting Moose, yet, limiting it to 75yds. for deer, 100 yds if using a REAL bullet with Lynman's BP lube. For patched ball shooting, bear's oil will handle 1/2 dozen shots,more than I've ever taken hunting. The musket I'm going to buy will allow me to hunt moose with the ML again to 100yds max. Since I traded off the 14 Bore rifle, I've had to use ctg. guns for moose, something I don't like much.
: For target shooting, I use a .440 ball and .020" patch, spit lube. We shoot "Slopping" wet no matter what the bore, and usually the same .020 DENIM patch. Some guys are using 'Rugby Pant' material which is a .015" denim. I've just purchased a .445 double cavity mould and will try it with the same patch or perhaps drop down to .015". I know it'll shoot just about anything I try - because these perscriptions always work in all guns.
: I've just done a test with the Mink Oil from Track (I used it back in the early '80's with good luck- no cleaning needed for hunting, but never tried it "all" day. My .45 GM barrel doesn't need cleaning after shooting the REAL bullets and Lyman's BP lube. The bore butter or lube 1000 from OxYoke is perhaps even better than Lyman's perhaps- I have 4 sticks to try.
: It has always seemed that BP shooting is a constant trial of different stuff & it pays to experiment - continually.
: I shot 12 rounds with the bullets and lyman's lube, then a patched ball with spit - loaded just as if I'd been shooting balls all along. Quite cleanly - nice. The only reason for the bullets was to extend the .45's range and perhaps make it suitable for moose. The 200gr. bullet at 1,700fps is 400fps higher than a 44-40's factory load from a Winchester, or about equal to a .44 mag rifle. The .45 Flinter & .44 mag kill moose quite well to 100yds. IF a good load with the slug can be found. Right now, an 80gr. 3F GOEX is working well & prints on the sights. A musket will leave no puzzles, though - those big balls really do have wonderous effect. I've shot moose with the .458 Mag, and .375H&H - but never have I seen the hit effect with those that I got from the 14 bore rifle. The big bores also allow the use of paper ctgs. which is what I normally used in the 14bore as they shot to the sights same as patched ball, but were much better for the -30 to -50 weather we hunted them in.(spl. weapons hunt)
: When in-lines started showing up with scopes, the game branck STOPPED the SPL Wps. hunt, but have now started it again - open sights only, and side hammer - no break-open or in-lines allowed & of course no more scopes even though they were somewhat popular on the frontier.
: On thelast allowed hunt, we were hunting with out "period" rifles once & had quite a camp-visit with the game branch oficials. They were upset with the 'modern' ML's they were seeing & told us we were going to lose this special hunt. We talked to them for most of a day suggesting ways of restriction that were easliy spotted by them for compliance & that's why the season was re-opened a couple years later. Lucky for us we had that 'meeting' in camp. It hit -56F that hunt & they were glad to stay in our tent where it was nice and warm. We were the only ones in that special area out of some 20 hunters who didn't have scopes & modern looking rifles.
: One of the old guys in the club here uses brandy :shocking: for patch lube, but he soaks the brandy out, replacing it with spit before shootng - THAT's not recommended - and another story!
Daryl