Colonial .54 touch hole

[TDM]

Hope you get it figured out @Mike in FL, for the record I've never had any 3F or 2F come out of a 1/16" vent hole.

 

[zerosprk]

My Kibler Colonial has gone "kaa-BANG" every time it should have with no vent modification. Swiss 2f, 3f, no matter...

 

[Kmcmichael]

I never drill the hole out. I’ve got three of his guns.

 

[James Kibler]

Not sure what might have happened? Our toucholes come standard with liners installed and the hole size is a little bigger than 1/16”. We can supply a replacement. You can also take a piece of the 1/16” pin stock to check the size. If you should need help replacing the liner, you could always ship us the barrel and get you fixed up.

 

[SDSmlf]

So I have to put a toothpick in the hole now to keep from losing some of my carefully measured main charge which adds another step.
Anyone else notice that spillage? Any suggestions?.

Since there is no fix, I'm I reckon I will continue with the tooth pic.

Nothing to fix. I may be a heretic, but typically use a 5/64” (.078”) touch hole, instant ignition and maybe a bit dribble with 3F as the main charge. Near 50 years with no complaints, and to be honest, at my age a bit of dribble is to be expected and no big deal.

 

[Mike in FL]

Keep your Frizzen closed, load and fire.

Can't do thst. When I say the pan gets gull, I mean completely full, which would make for a huge priming..

 

[LongWalker]

I've been using 5/64" touch holes since the early '90s, so as usual I bored the touch hole on my Colonial to 5/64". When loading, I poke a feather into the touch hole, then load as usual. Drawing the feather out will sometimes spill a couple grains of powder into the pan, but since I'm going to prime the pan anyhow I've never worried about it. Prime and shoot as usual.

I've got just over 2,700 shots through this rifle now, with no problems occasioned by the diameter of the touch hole/powder spillage from the touch hole.

 

[kyron4]

Is there more blow by from a larger 5/64" touch hole; or at least can you tell any difference from 1/16" to 5/64" ?

 

[LongWalker]

I've not noticed any difference while shooting, but as I wrote before, I've been doing it this way for a long time.

Years ago I did chronograph one of my rifles with 1/16" and 5/64" touch holes. There was a velocity difference, but it was more than made up by a slight increase in powder charge.

 

[Salty Cracker]

Hey Mike. What brand powder are you using? The other fella asked you and didn't see where you answered. Double check the drill you used again. Verify it is indeed 1/16". I prefer FF in .50 and above. If all you have is FFF then plug the vent like you and the others were sayin. Good luck.

 

[Reno]

Personally I would not use a toothpick as it could break very easily. But if you feel good with it all the better. I’ve never been concerned about 2F in the pan. In fact I’ve carried and do carry 2F in the horn. I load with it and prime with it. It’s always worked. I get that many don’t want to and dont feel comfortable with that. But ok. It works for me. I carry one horn.

 

[Mike in FL]

I did not know that Kibler kits required drilling the touch holes - I thought that was all completed when you purchase them ? I am confused …my 2 kits have a liner installed all done ….at least I thought - I have watched about 20 hours of Mr Kibler videos and never saw him do such a thing

I think you are right. I should not have drilled, at least not before trying it. I've just always heard 1//16 th is optimal.

 

[Snooterpup]

Not sure what might have happened? Our toucholes come standard with liners installed and the hole size is a little bigger than 1/16”. We can supply a replacement. You can also take a piece of the 1/16” pin stock to check the size. If you should need help replacing the liner, you could always ship us the barrel and get you fixed up.

Just one more reason to buy a kit from Jim Kibler. Customer service goes above and beyond.

 

[French Colonial]

Personally I would not use a toothpick as it could break very easily. But if you feel good with it all the better. I’ve never been concerned about 2F in the pan. In fact I’ve carried and do carry 2F in the horn. I load with it and prime with it. It’s always worked. I get that many don’t want to and dont feel comfortable with that. But ok. It works for me. I carry one horn.

Order some bamboo toothpicks from Amazon, I started using them in the kitchen for different things, canapes, what nots for the charcuterie board.
They are very tough and hard to break, I use them for different things in the shop now as well.

 

[Daveboone]

A good rule of thumb is not to try to fix something until you KNOW it is broken. You certainly didnt do any harm, but maybe no goo. I highly doubt you can lose enough powder out the touch hole to worry about....black powder is very forgiving....not at all like smokeless, where you would be very correct to be concerned for the difference for the powder loss.

 

[2001guns]

When you look at the big eroded touch holes on some original muzzleloaders, you wonder if they started forest fires when they were shot. I'm a kind of Brown Bess guy so when I decided to finally get into shooting black powder I picked my least collectable (in my mind), example. Uppermost in my assessment of the Bess I selected ( Short India Pattern Land from late 1700s), was not to do anything to the gun that was not reversible or would greatly alter its characteristics of that model. Two biggies encountered when you think you want to shoot a gun that may be 250 years old, are the condition of the barrel and the eroded touch hole. What I did to the barrel is for another post.

In the attached pics you can see the comparison of my James Barbar Bess (top) with my shooter. The Barbar Bess has a lined touch hole which I believe is silver. I have seen that Barbar, who was one of the finest gunsmiths of that time, often lined the touch holes in his pistols with a white metal which I assume is silver. I have found nothing to contradict that the builder probably used the same methods on his long guns also. In any case, that liner has a hole that is .072. That hole is smooth and not eroded in any way so you must assume that the people that carried this gun all those years were happy with the hole.

The touch hole in my "shooter" Bess had eroded out to about .130 that's just a touch over 1/8 inch. Certainly, it may have been a simple matter to drill that hole out and tap it to 1/4-28 or so and screw a mail order liner in with the selected touch hole already there. Not a chance. In my mind, drilling that barrel was out of the question. I can accept the ancient erosion but to me that drilling would ruin the barrel. I couldn't imagine looking at a screwdriver slotted liner every time I look in the pan. On a new gun, yes. But not here.

Now don't start laughing till you see the results. POP-RIVET! Yep, Here's how I did it and I attached some pics so you can see the results.

I took a 1/8" diameter X 1/4" reach, stainless steel Pop Rivet. It was a snug fit in the hole and protruded past the inside of the barrel just enough to set the rivet when pulled. The pull pin is easily tapped free of the rivet and now you have a nice smooth hole of about .070. Not through yet. The inside end of the rivet protrudes slightly. Take your Dremel tool with a small round abrasive stone mounted. Since the breech plug is out, there is plenty of room to work and see what you are doing. Grind down the rivet till it protrudes about .60" into the barrel. Now, go find a BB, you know as in Red Ryder, and a pair of skinny nosed vise grips. We are going to flair or make concave the inside end of the rivet.

Secure the barrel with the touch hole down. Place the BB on top of the rivet in the barrel. Reach in with the vice grips (protect the outside of the barrel from the lower jaw on the pliers), keep snugging and squeezing the vice grips and the BB will flare the rivet nicely so the rivet is set well and there is a smooth concave inside to the touch hole.

It is an easy matter to carefully drill out the rivet if the Bess needs to be returned to an unaltered state. In this operation the existing touch hole was not changed an any way.

 

[M. De Land]

Is there more blow by from a larger 5/64" touch hole; or at least can you tell any difference from 1/16" to 5/64" ?

Yes there is which is why I use the smallest flash hole possible consistent with reliable/ fast ignition. It also appears to me that coning the exterior enhances fast reliable ignition as well or better than internal coning which encourages exhausting of breech pressure. Interior coning works exactly like a header does on an auto engine allowing exhaust pressure to escape as fast as possible. Good for engine performance and reliable ignition in guns but not for maximum efficiency of chamber pressure ballistic performance.

 

[M. De Land]

When you look at the big eroded touch holes on some original muzzleloaders, you wonder if they started forest fires when they were shot. I'm a kind of Brown Bess guy so when I decided to finally get into shooting black powder I picked my least collectable (in my mind), example. Uppermost in my assessment of the Bess I selected ( Short India Pattern Land from late 1700s), was not to do anything to the gun that was not reversible or would greatly alter its characteristics of that model. Two biggies encountered when you think you want to shoot a gun that may be 250 years old, are the condition of the barrel and the eroded touch hole. What I did to the barrel is for another post.

In the attached pics you can see the comparison of my James Barbar Bess (top) with my shooter. The Barbar Bess has a lined touch hole which I believe is silver. I have seen that Barbar, who was one of the finest gunsmiths of that time, often lined the touch holes in his pistols with a white metal which I assume is silver. I have found nothing to contradict that the builder probably used the same methods on his long guns also. In any case, that liner has a hole that is .072. That hole is smooth and not eroded in any way so you must assume that the people that carried this gun all those years were happy with the hole.

The touch hole in my "shooter" Bess had eroded out to about .130 that's just a touch over 1/8 inch. Certainly, it may have been a simple matter to drill that hole out and tap it to 1/4-28 or so and screw a mail order liner in with the selected touch hole already there. Not a chance. In my mind, drilling that barrel was out of the question. I can accept the ancient erosion but to me that drilling would ruin the barrel. I couldn't imagine looking at a screwdriver slotted liner every time I look in the pan. On a new gun, yes. But not here.

Now don't start laughing till you see the results. POP-RIVET! Yep, Here's how I did it and I attached some pics so you can see the results.

I took a 1/8" diameter X 1/4" reach, stainless steel Pop Rivet. It was a snug fit in the hole and protruded past the inside of the barrel just enough to set the rivet when pulled. The pull pin is easily tapped free of the rivet and now you have a nice smooth hole of about .070. Not through yet. The inside end of the rivet protrudes slightly. Take your Dremel tool with a small round abrasive stone mounted. Since the breech plug is out, there is plenty of room to work and see what you are doing. Grind down the rivet till it protrudes about .60" into the barrel. Now, go find a BB, you know as in Red Ryder, and a pair of skinny nosed vise grips. We are going to flair or make concave the inside end of the rivet.

Secure the barrel with the touch hole down. Place the BB on top of the rivet in the barrel. Reach in with the vice grips (protect the outside of the barrel from the lower jaw on the pliers), keep snugging and squeezing the vice grips and the BB will flare the rivet nicely so the rivet is set well and there is a smooth concave inside to the touch hole.

It is an easy matter to carefully drill out the rivet if the Bess needs to be returned to an unaltered state. In this operation the existing touch hole was not changed an any way.

Great idea !

 

[M. De Land]

Yes there is which is why I use the smallest flash hole possible consistent with reliable/ fast ignition. It also appears to me that coning the exterior enhances fast reliable ignition as well or better than internal coning which encourages exhausting of breech pressure. Interior coning works exactly like a header does on an auto engine allowing exhaust pressure to escape as fast as possible. Good for engine performance and reliable ignition in guns but not for maximum efficiency of chamber pressure ballistic performance.

Only thing I worry about is the rivet body of soft stainless does not peen closed, loose it's grip and come out of the eroded flash hole like bullet at some point.

 

[morehops52]

I've seen plenty of posts suggesting putting a touch hole pick (or feather) in the vent while loading. Pull it out and prime. Supposedly gives quicker ignition but I don't know if anyone ever timed it. Not defective.