Colt 1851 vs. Pietta

[OldSmoky1967]

Hello,

Can anyone tell me if the Original Colt 1851's are the same size as the Pietta, or other replica's? Thinking of maybe buying one, but don't see much on the size and weight, etc.

 

[Sergio Natali]

FWIK the original COLTs had several parts made of brass, while the Pietta reproductions of the so called "London model" original manufactured in England.

 

[necchi]

Gee, that's an interesting question.
I guess I've always presumed the current "reproduction" models were indeed similar to the originals in size, shape and configuration.
I have handled a few originals at gun shows an such, and while I've never done a side-by-side comparison, the originals always seemed to be lighter in weight by several ounces, at least enough to notice in hand.
I simply attributed that to the difference in the current steels used vs those of 170yrs ago.
Perhaps current liability issues force reproductions to be a little more "robust" than the originals,,

 

[OldSmoky1967]

Gee, that's an interesting question.
I guess I've always presumed the current "reproduction" models were indeed similar to the originals in size, shape and configuration.
I have handled a few originals at gun shows an such, and while I've never done a side-by-side comparison, the originals always seemed to be lighter in weight by several ounces, at least enough to notice in hand.
I simply attributed that to the difference in the current steels used vs those of 170yrs ago.
Perhaps current liability issues force reproductions to be a little more "robust" than the originals,,

Not really sure. I have a Gen 2 Colt and it sure seems small to my hands.....

 

[Stantheman86]

The overall size of the entire gun?

I don't have an original 1851 but I've handled a bunch of cartridge conversions , the size seems the same but I don't know how exact the replicas are.

 

[hrt4me]

I have several original Colt 1851 .36 caliber Navies, and also a few Pietta 1851s in .36 caliber as well... I'll weigh them all... in which other dimensions are you interested?

 

[William Lincoln]

My understanding was that the Uberti 1851 was so close to
the original that many parts would interchange. Over time
Pietta has improved in quality and they might now have
conformed the replicas to match the originals. The one thing
everyone agrees upon is that no revolver since has matched
the natural pointability of the 1851 Colt. Back in the day,
it was a preferred side arm and carried by huge numbers
of soldiers in the pre-1860 Colt days. Many modern black
powder authorities prefer the 1851 Colt and recommend
them widely for their shooting enjoyment.

 

[necchi]

I have several original Colt 1851 .36 caliber Navies, and also a few Pietta 1851s in .36 caliber as well... I'll weigh them all... in which other dimensions are you interested?

That's interesting, Thank you, I hope I see the share of that info

 

[TFoley]

I have to agree about the pointability of the original Model 1851, having shot originals and modern replicas on the same day. It is the old version of the immensely pointish Luger pistol in that respect. Although all my shots with both pistols were inevitably high, the original put them all into 4" @25m and the modern-day version into an inch bigger. All one-handed, too. But for the laws hereabouts I'd be having one like a shot. To coin a phrase.....

 

[OldSmoky1967]

I have several original Colt 1851 .36 caliber Navies, and also a few Pietta 1851s in .36 caliber as well... I'll weigh them all... in which other dimensions are you interested?

Just want to make sure they are pretty close is all.

 

[Wolfman0125]

I have a Colt 1851 F series. I do know that the grips are different from Uberti and Pietta and Armi San Marco and they are not interchangeable with each other.

 

[4575wcf]

Having been a machinist for my working career, with a modicum of metallurgy and engineering training thrown in, here is the deal. The first reproduction 1851 Colts were copied from an original in the 1950's supplied to the Italian gunmakers by Val Forget of Navy Arms. Shrinkage is an accepted fact of the investment casting process, and the early revolver frames were cast using ceramic molds made from the original gun. Because of shrinkage they were consistently a certain percentage smaller than the original. As time progressed, the more astute shooter collector types noticed this. The first attempt at a full right-sized gun was made on the 1858 Remington. I remember when the run was announced, but fail to recall who offered them. They were priced a bit higher, and were full size. By now, I think all the manufacturers have adjusted their products to where these undersized black powder pistols are no longer made. Any Colt or Remington repro you buy today is full sized I believe. I have owned and still own several of the early ones, and you have to fit any and all parts to them. My stainless vintage Euroarms 1858 requires a smaller hammer no longer made, and a replacement bolt with 1/16 inch removed on the forward end to function for example--and so on.

 

[OldSmoky1967]

Having been a machinist for my working career, with a modicum of metallurgy and engineering training thrown in, here is the deal. The first reproduction 1851 Colts were copied from an original in the 1950's supplied to the Italian gunmakers by Val Forget of Navy Arms. Shrinkage is an accepted fact of the investment casting process, and the early revolver frames were cast using ceramic molds made from the original gun. Because of shrinkage they were consistently a certain percentage smaller than the original. As time progressed, the more astute shooter collector types noticed this. The first attempt at a full right-sized gun was made on the 1858 Remington. I remember when the run was announced, but fail to recall who offered them. They were priced a bit higher, and were full size. By now, I think all the manufacturers have adjusted their products to where these undersized black powder pistols are no longer made. Any Colt or Remington repro you buy today is full sized I believe. I have owned and still own several of the early ones, and you have to fit any and all parts to them. My stainless vintage Euroarms 1858 requires a smaller hammer no longer made, and a replacement bolt with 1/16 inch removed on the forward end to function for example--and so on.

Great discription. It really does explain a lot of what I was thinking the problem was.

 

[springfield art]

Gee, that's an interesting question.
I guess I've always presumed the current "reproduction" models were indeed similar to the originals in size, shape and configuration.
I have handled a few originals at gun shows an such, and while I've never done a side-by-side comparison, the originals always seemed to be lighter in weight by several ounces, at least enough to notice in hand.
I simply attributed that to the difference in the current steels used vs those of 170yrs ago.
Perhaps current liability issues force reproductions to be a little more "robust" than the originals,,

Yes, lawyers are involved in designs of almost everything. You're right on the money.

 

[springfield art]

My understanding was that the Uberti 1851 was so close to
the original that many parts would interchange. Over time
Pietta has improved in quality and they might now have
conformed the replicas to match the originals. The one thing
everyone agrees upon is that no revolver since has matched
the natural pointability of the 1851 Colt. Back in the day,
it was a preferred side arm and carried by huge numbers
of soldiers in the pre-1860 Colt days. Many modern black
powder authorities prefer the 1851 Colt and recommend
them widely for their shooting enjoyment.

I have a nice Armi San Marco 1851 from the early '90's. The importer, EMF, marketed them as "Hartford Model", and they were pretty! Got an 1860 Colt from them, too. It was said by GOW magazine, that the ASM and Uberti were the same specs, but the replacement cylinder I got didn't quite fit the ASM, but was perfect in the Uberti 1860. I just bought a NIB Pietta M58 Rem., it's a nicely made gun from the mid-90's.

 

[OldSmoky1967]

I have a nice Armi San Marco 1851 from the early '90's. The importer, EMF, marketed them as "Hartford Model", and they were pretty! Got an 1860 Colt from them, too. It was said by GOW magazine, that the ASM and Uberti were the same specs, but the replacement cylinder I got didn't quite fit the ASM, but was perfect in the Uberti 1860. I just bought a NIB Pietta M58 Rem., it's a nicely made gun from the mid-90's.

Nice! Ty for the response.

 

[Red Owl]

The NRA publishes "Men at Arms" magazine for collectors and there are a lot of ads from dealers in originals- they would likely know for sure.

 

[Pete G]

The Pietta grip has a flared "tail" in order to fit their detachable stock. The Colt and Uberti do not.

 

[4575wcf]

My first '51 Navy was ordered directly from Navy Arms in the very late 1970's. It was the round barreled Leech and Rigdon version and cost $95 + ship. I lived on the home place in those days a long ways from anywhere and I had pop and beer cans set up against a berm in the driveway. I fired on them whenever I had spare time, caps and powder were cheap and easy to get. Like every stock '51 I have owned since the L & R shot a foot high at 10 yards, but since I had not yet begun my machining career, I had to just hold under and live with it. I was already taking my guns apart and attempting to fix them, but I really did not know much then. All of the Italian made springs at that time gave up one by one, and replacement parts and springs ordered from DGW usually fared not much better. The gun shot like a house afire, as have all the 1851 replicas I have owned since, the trouble was to keep it running. Eventually a wannabee "gunsmith" stole it from me under the guise of working on it. He split town and ripped off several of us. Now when I break something I build my own internals from the correct steels, fit them up properly, heat treat as necessary and away we go. I sure wish I still had the old Leech and Rigdon today, but the only original parts would be the frame, rammer, cylinder and the barrel. I should not complain I currently own at least four Navies in various stages of tuning.

 

[OldSmoky1967]

The NRA publishes "Men at Arms" magazine for collectors and there are a lot of ads from dealers in originals- they would likely know for sure.

Thank you