Colt 1860 Vs Remington New Model

[Bad Karma]

1858 Remington
View attachment 173178

1851 Navy
View attachment 173179

1860 Colt New Model Army…

 

[Dave Fox]

two questions here. Which revolver suits the owner best and which is a better revolver. As to the latter, how many open top revolvers are manufactured today?

 

[FishDFly]

Back to line shooting, the 1858 is the preferred pistol when it comes to winning. Have never seen a Colt win the "As Issue" revolver match.

Friendship offers an open revolver match, very few enter it. If Colt was superior, how come very few enters it, if they are the pistol of choice?

Why cannot Uberti and Pietta put a taller front sight on Colt's so they do not shoot one foot high? That is dumb! My Remington's shoot at POA.

 

[Snake Pleskin]

The 1858 Remington-Beals revolver was accepted during a time when the military issued nitrate paper cartridges loaded with light 17-24 grain charges of "pistol powder " and a heavy conical . The idea was to mitigate fouling so the guns could get through an 18 round "issue" of ammunition. And both the Colt and Remington had no problems functioning under what the Ordnance Dept thought was expected combat use.

both will foul up with extended shooting, which is why letters home from soldiers talk about pouring canteens over revolvers to free them up in a fight, so they could be loaded again. Because plenty of guys carried more than the 18 rounds allotted as a "standard" by the Ordnance Dept

So, here in 2022 people dump 40 grains of 2f, 3f, 777,or Pyrodex , or whatever into the chambers of Rems and Colts, using various lube. Or not. Lead round balls, sometimes cast from harder alloys and we get the "information creep" of how these guns perform vs each other based on range blasting and field use with charges and projectiles the guns were never designed to use and Italian reproductions are just that, reproductions that are pretty close to originals but not the same

I just think it's funny that people will vehemently stand behind a weapons design because they own an Italian repro of it, this is what makes the shooting hobby so awesome.

Always better to stand behind it then in front of it IMHO LOL, : )

 

[Snake Pleskin]

Drag lines ( beauty rings) are typical of ill timing and /or mishandling.

I am one of those that like to keep my revolvers looking "new" or at least "well kept" ( that goes for cars as well!! ).

Mike

No such thing as "new" unless it just came from the factory and is still in original packing etc. Once you handle it, its used, and if you fire it, it's definitely used. Point is. Why all the angst over a few marks on an item meant to be used? Life is too short, and in the end, no one is going to care. IMHO

 

[45D]

No such thing as "new" unless it just came from the factory and is still in original packing etc. Once you handle it, its used, and if you fire it, it's definitely used. Point is. Why all the angst over a few marks on an item meant to be used? Life is too short, and in the end, no one is going to care. IMHO

Ok, all my open-top revolvers were "new" when I got them and I like to keep them looking as close to THAT as I can. That doesn't mean I don't use them. It just means they are timed correctly, the parts have been "fitted" so that they function more efficiently, springs changed to coils and a bolt block and action stop have been installed to protect the action parts as well as the cylinder notches.
All that translates to - I can " treat them like a fool" / " run um ragged" / " fan um if i want to" and they will be just fine. Same with the Remington and the ROA.

If you treat an " out of the box" revolver that way, it'll be trashed in short order. The ROA will take more time but it happens to them as well - but it can be prevented.

Mike

 

[Snake Pleskin]

Ok, all my open-top revolvers were "new" when I got them and I like to keep them looking as close to THAT as I can. That doesn't mean I don't use them. It just means they are timed correctly, the parts have been "fitted" so that they function more efficiently, springs changed to coils and a bolt block and action stop have been installed to protect the action parts as well as the cylinder notches.
All that translates to - I can " treat them like a fool" / " run um ragged" / " fan um if i want to" and they will be just fine. Same with the Remington and the ROA.

If you treat an " out of the box" revolver that way, it'll be trashed in short order. The ROA will take more time but it happens to them as well - but it can be prevented.

Mike

I am not familiar with the inner workings of these revolvers. What is a "bolt block" and "action stop" what do they do, who installs them etc?

 

[JRL1164]

That's what I was thinking.
My only complaint with regards to wedges, has been when the factory slams them home with a 20,000lb hydraulic press.

Thats no lie! My Pietta 1851 was ridiculous out of the box.

 

[JRL1164]

Being relatively new to cap and ball revolvers I went the Colt route. My first was a Pietta 1851 and a 1860 followed shortly after. Personally for me I preferred the looks and styling of the Colts and the historical part just ate at me. Looking back at what I know now I stand behind my decision. The Colts I think are more elegant and with the minor tuning or "issues" pointed out here really allowed me to learn and jump heavy into these. Still don't know hardly half of what is spoken on this forum but significantly more knowledgeable than I was before.

I think if I had gone the Remington route, I may have lost interest or not nearly learned as much as I did.

 

[45D]

I am not familiar with the inner workings of these revolvers. What is a "bolt block" and "action stop" what do they do, who installs them etc?

Here's a bolt block

It lies next to the bolt and limits horizontal movement to near zero. That allows the bolt to do its job of locking / unlocking the cylinder. It also helps protect the cyl notches by not allowing throw-by (over rotation) because of the confinement. It also adds a considerable amount of mechanical accuracy to the action over all. Most of the time the hand will need to be stretched because of the removal of "slop".

Here's an action stop-

Well, it's drilled and tapped for the set screw to be installed. The set screw meets the under side of the main spring when the hammer reaches full cock. At that point all action movement stops. All holes are de-burred (if you're going to do something, do it right!!)

Coil springs-

Individual springs allow more accurate settings for each part.

After all else is done, you end up with a "bullet proof " action that won't break and a revolver that will keep its good looks no matter how hard you run it . . . just like this customers 2nd Gen Colt.

Mike

 

[Texas Gil]

Wild Bull would agree

 

[GYJ]

No such thing as "new" unless it just came from the factory and is still in original packing etc. Once you handle it, its used, and if you fire it, it's definitely used. Point is. Why all the angst over a few marks on an item meant to be used? Life is too short, and in the end, no one is going to care. IMHO

No angst at all. Unless it's a Ruger New Model or double action revolver, drag lines are from mishandling, not use. The bolt should rise into the leede and if it doesn't, you have timing issues that need to be corrected. Never lower the hammer from the half cock notch and all will be right with the world. No angst required.

And ALL my guns see field use and the inside of a holster. From the lowly $200 Pietta to the multi-thousand dollar custom and engraved guns.

Handling does not constitute a used gun, unless it imparts visible wear.

 

[Mike in FL]

I don't think they are comparable from an aesthetics perspective. Weird and junky looking vs pleasing artistic design. I'd never even even consider an open top. It screams "weak design," but I'm talking about looks. Never bought one, don't want one, wouldn't have one in the house. The sight on the hammer freaks me out.
I surely do not mean to upset or anger the Colt admirers. I'm just answering the OP's question. My opinion only. God bless all b/p shooters everywhere, I love all of 'em.

 

[Snake Pleskin]

Here's a bolt block
View attachment 173491

It lies next to the bolt and limits horizontal movement to near zero. That allows the bolt to do its job of locking / unlocking the cylinder. It also helps protect the cyl notches by not allowing throw-by (over rotation) because of the confinement. It also adds a considerable amount of mechanical accuracy to the action over all. Most of the time the hand will need to be stretched because of the removal of "slop".

Here's an action stop-
View attachment 173493

Well, it's drilled and tapped for the set screw to be installed. The set screw meets the under side of the main spring when the hammer reaches full cock. At that point all action movement stops. All holes are de-burred (if you're going to do something, do it right!!)

Coil springs-
View attachment 173497

Individual springs allow more accurate settings for each part.

After all else is done, you end up with a "bullet proof " action that won't break and a revolver that will keep its good looks no matter how hard you run it . . . just like this customers 2nd Gen Colt.

View attachment 173499

Mike

Thank you , fantastic info and pictures. Who does this type of work?

 

[45D]

Thank you , fantastic info and pictures. Who does this type of work?

Me.
I found me at goonsgunworks.com. lol!!

Mike

 

[Snake Pleskin]

Me.
I found me at goonsgunworks.com. lol!!

Mike

Thank you again! I assume I could contact you here or on the site if I want work done?

 

[45D]

Yessir.

Mike

 

[maillemaker]

Once you pull the trigger, it does not really matter what the sight does.

Sitting still with your sights on target after pulling the trigger can be helpful to accuracy.

 

[maillemaker]

I actually find using extra cylinders easier with a well broken in Colt repro than an 1858

By the time I'm done Fiddle-Fracking with the 1858 cylinder trying to get it in, I can have already pushed the wedge out, quickly popped the barrel off , swapped cylinders and reassembled a repro Colt that's broken in. My older Uberti Navy pretty much falls apart after the wedge is out,super easy

Most of the time when people have trouble putting their cylinders back in a Remington it's because they are fighting the hand that sticks out of the rear of the frame.

You need to insert your cylinder while twisting it slightly in the direction of the hand and work the hammer a bit.

It should drop in easily.

 

[Rfp10000]

That knowledge passed on to others like Jim Martin is how Mr. Martin was able to teach Eddie Janis and many others ( including me) how to do the same.

I want to thank all you guys including Charlie , Larry and all the shops stocking all the stuff needed to enjoy the history and present day use of these tools that really changed life.
It’s like finding a mechanic that keeps your classic car enjoyable.
At first it’s daunting & bit by bit I pick up knowledge from folks with a ton of experience. There is something very satisfying about the process from sourcing / making cast bullets , settling on a desired load , powder & caps , taking apart/cleaning your basic guns & then being ready for some of the more tricked out stuff guys like you do.. I find I enjoy the hobby for way more than just shooting. There is a slowed down pace that gives me a glimpse of a different time. People above were talking about population density and finding places to make smoke & I think about the fact that during the 1860’s the population in the US was 30 mil vs 330 mil today , twice what it was when I grew up. No wonder people are frazzled. When I take my cap gun apart to clean it reminds me of simpler , less crowded times. You had to do almost everything for yourself. Some of My friends with unmentionables just seem to blast away with store bought bullets & look on at my tedious procedures & clouds of smoke with a certain fascination & I almost feel bad that they miss the history we experience.