Colt signature series

[frogwalking]

Who actually made the Colt second generation signature series bp revolvers?

 

[bubba.50]

I've heard they were made by uberti but can't swear to it. pretty sure they're Eye-talian.

 

[Zonie]

I'm not sure there ever was a "Second Generation", "Signature series" Colt revolver made.

There seems to be a Second Generation series which were first made by Colt using Uberti supplied castings and later made under contract to Colt by Iver Johnson.
They were inspected by and serialized by Colt and are considered real Colts.

The Signature Series is considered to be the Third Generation, made by "Colt Blackpowder Arms Company" in Brooklyn, New York. Although it used the name "Colt" is was not a Colt owned company.
It was owned by Louis Imperato (who owned Iver Johnson at the time they were producing the Second Generation Colts)
Imperato sold the Iver Johnson name and renamed the company that produced the Third Generation the "Colt Blackpowder Arms Company", mentioned above.

Later on it became the Henry Repeating Arms Company.

There is some interesting discussion in this link http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...p?tid/189290/post/219115/fromsearch/1/#219115

 

[Toomuch51]

Who actually made the Colt second generation signature series bp revolvers?

To the best of my research both second and third gen. Colt BP revolvers were made by Uberti under specific contract from Colt. Primarily so Colt wouldn't have to completely retool for a limited production run.
The same also applies to the "Colt signature series m/1861 musket", made by Pedersoli.
In both cases it was the component parts being manufactured by the outsource, then shipped here and assembled by Colt here in the states.

Toomuch
........
Shoot Flint

 

[SAJones]

The July 2014 American Rifleman's back page "I have this old gun" features a signature series 1851. Hacker pretty much stated what Zonie said. However, I disagree with his assessment that the 3rd generations are "... the finest Navys yet."; I find the 2nd generation is better made & finished, and I think he overvalued the pistol.

 

[Golfswithwolves]

I am fortunate to own a couple of examples each of 2nd and 3rd generation Colt's revolvers. I find both generations to be very well made, and can tell no difference in quality of machining, assembly, and function between them. The tales of who manufactured these guns are varied, but most folks seem to agree that the parts were from Italy and the fitting/assembly was done in the U.S. with cooperation or permission from Colt. I personally view these revolvers as continuations of the Colt line rather than as reproductions, but others may have their own opinions.

 

[TFoley]

I am fortunate to own a couple of examples each of 2nd and 3rd generation Colt's revolvers. I find both generations to be very well made, and can tell no difference in quality of machining, assembly, and function between them. The tales of who manufactured these guns are varied, but most folks seem to agree that the parts were from Italy and the fitting/assembly was done in the U.S. with cooperation or permission from Colt. I personally view these revolvers as continuations of the Colt line rather than as reproductions, but others may have their own opinions.

Sir, it is my understanding that it was the so-called 'Second Series' Colt pistols that were indeed finished and assembled in the US, and marked accordingly along the barrel top as such, and from rough parts made by Aldo Uberti. The lack of Italian proof marks, required on ANY finished firearm in Italy, tends to bear that out.

I'm also of the belief, based on information on this forum, that Mr Imperato's Brooklyn company bought the rights to call themselves Colt from the original Colt Patent firearms Co., Inc of Hartford Conn., who were no longer interested in making such old-style firearms.

My very presence on this site is due to an unfortunate mishap some twelve years ago, when the barrel wedge of my CBF Walker, serial #1816, disintegrated whilst I was shooting the pistol, necessitating the careful use of a Dremel and cutting disc to remove the busted bit, which was serial-numbered to the gun. Having mistakingly made contact with Colt in Hartford, I was directed to the bunch in Brooklyn, who spent the next two years ignoring my my requests to buy a replacement wedge.

That did not go down well over here, and I publicised their lack of recognition all over Europe and North America in response. I eventually got tow wedges, one from Hege here in Europe, and one from DGW at a fifth of the price.

tac

 

[torn moc]

wow TAC..DID it make ya feel any better to get rid of that pent up steam?~ ~ ~ grumpy ~ ~ ~

 

[azmntman]

I feel better just reading it :haha:

 

[Wes/Tex]

Basically, the parts were ALL made by Uberti form day one and shipped to Colt for proofing, fit and finish, etc. The earliest runs by Colt, the later by the off shoot Colt Blackpowder Arms Co. under their president Anthony Imperato. Anyone wanting to figure out the many twists and turns of the whole enterprise can do no better than getting a copy pf Dennis Adler's beautiful color photoed book "Colt Blackpowder Reproductions & Replicas: A Collector's & Shooter's Guide". It's a detailed study of the whole operation form the earliest replicas through all of Colt's production and up to the printing date of 1998. There are forwards by Colt Historian R. L. Wilson and Val Forgett, Sr., naming dates, places contracts, makers and every other fine detail you never wanted to know about the whole history of percussion revolvers since the 50's. Yes, I've read it, several times, but remembering all the ins and outs is way past my skill level! :wink: :rotf:

 

[TFoley]

wow TAC..DID it make ya feel any better to get rid of that pent up steam?~ ~ ~ grumpy ~ ~ ~

Pent up? Dunno what you mean. It's all nothing but water under the bridge, and has been for years, but its still an inescapable part of the many nigh-on incomprehensible series of twists and turns that have taken place in Brooklyn over the years.

Anyhow, the REAL benefit is that it got me to this site, where I've made a few good friends over the years, and that is surely the best thing, isn't it? :wink:

tac [note use of lower case, I'm not an acronym :grin:]

 

[torn moc]

Agreed ! This Is the Best Site ! HOORAH !

 

[Col. Batguano]

So were the London Colts (the 19th Century pieces) actually all made in London? The New York Colts actually made in New York vs. New Haven? If so where were their factories?

 

[Zonie]

Yes. The London Colts were made in London at:

Samual Colt
1, Spring-Gardens,
Cockspur Street
London England

(Ref. COLONEL COLT LONDON plate 39, page 43 )

 

[frogwalking]

Hmmm. It sounds like the best move is just to buy an Uberti and be done with it.

 

[Dickydalton]

I dunno, I have 2 Second Gen and one 3rd Gen and they put my Uberti's to shame. And my Piettas which I like very much. In fact, I like em all! :blah:

 

[Pete44ru]

.


Nonetheless, IMHO the Uberti's are a satisfactory substitute, at about 50% the cost of a Colt/Uberti.


.

 

Hi Dicky:

You wrote "I dunno, I have 2 Second Gen and one 3rd Gen and they put my Uberti's to shame."

What is the specific difference which in your opinion makes the 2nd and 3rd Generation better then the Uberti Colts?

Also I have heard that the 3rd Generation was the better then the 2nd. What is your opinion on this?

SevenNotrump

 

[Dickydalton]

The fit and finish of the 2nd Gens, wood and metal are better. My 1851 Navy hads the most beautiful bluing I ever got on a BP revolver. The super-short arbor on the Uberti 1862 Pocket police was way too much. The Case hardening on all the Colts is more vivid and hasn't faded like the Ubertis. (I admit I haven't shot the 3rd Gen 1860 Gold Calvery commemorative or done anything to wear the case hardening). The Goon is currently doing a tune-up on my 1851 C Series and I can hardly wait to see the difference.
In all honesty, a Pietta 1860 and an 1858 Pietta I have are as fine of guns out of the box as some ROAs.

 

[rayb]

Basically, the parts were ALL made by Uberti form day one and shipped to Colt for proofing, fit and finish, etc. The earliest runs by Colt, the later by the off shoot Colt Blackpowder Arms Co. under their president Anthony Imperato. Anyone wanting to figure out the many twists and turns of the whole enterprise can do no better than getting a copy pf Dennis Adler's beautiful color photoed book "Colt Blackpowder Reproductions & Replicas: A Collector's & Shooter's Guide". It's a detailed study of the whole operation form the earliest replicas through all of Colt's production and up to the printing date of 1998. There are forwards by Colt Historian R. L. Wilson and Val Forgett, Sr., naming dates, places contracts, makers and every other fine detail you never wanted to know about the whole history of percussion revolvers since the 50's. Yes, I've read it, several times, but remembering all the ins and outs is way past my skill level! :wink: :rotf:

In addition, I've found Dennis Russell's Book "Percussion Colt revolvers The Second generation" Useful.
order from him:

Dennis Russell % Jared Press, LLC
3162 Hohnson Ferry Road, Suite 60-607
Marietta GA 30062

Sorry I don't remember the price.

rayb