Im betting this is a wrong assumption. Here's a link to a study on this very subject: http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/sparks/sparks.html
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Confused about Powder Horns
- Thread starter AZMLII
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Clubs and mst rondy's that I have participated at typically state in the ground rules " no direct loading from horn/flask to barrel" and the use of a seperate measure or holding device as a step between horn/flask and barrel is the rule. Its a safety/liability thing.
Original post....
several folks from this site make nice horns, granted they are not run of the mill but rather works of art!
money well spent.
Original post....
several folks from this site make nice horns, granted they are not run of the mill but rather works of art!
money well spent.
Oh I'm not arguing that point. I do in fact load with a measure, I was simply suggesting the use of a cheap plastic ketchup bottle for the flask to save money. What can I save I'm a penny pincher at heart :v
AZMLII
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Thank you for all the information. I think I'm going to get a cylindrical powder flask.
I'll use it with my powder measure.
For the time being, I do all my shooting from the bench, so it should work well for that, and be more convenient than pouring into the measure from the powder can.
Zonie, thank you for letting me know about the fancy flasks. I was tempted to buy a Florentine Neptune flask, but I'll steer clear of it. I tend to be rough my equipment.
Also, thank you for the horn information. I think I will save my pennies and buy a pretty bison one down the road, or make one.
Cheers,
Patrick
I'll use it with my powder measure.
For the time being, I do all my shooting from the bench, so it should work well for that, and be more convenient than pouring into the measure from the powder can.
Zonie, thank you for letting me know about the fancy flasks. I was tempted to buy a Florentine Neptune flask, but I'll steer clear of it. I tend to be rough my equipment.
Also, thank you for the horn information. I think I will save my pennies and buy a pretty bison one down the road, or make one.
Cheers,
Patrick
PA16th
40 Cal.
My first gun was a T/C Hawken. My first powder holder was a (Thompson Center 7224 U-View Powder Flask With A Spring-Loaded Plunger) about $25. I now have a powder horn but went back to using the T/C powder flask especialy for hunting. I have always poured into a powder measure.
Hope this helps,
Don
Hope this helps,
Don
After you get further along in your Muzzleloading voyage and have everything you need you will find yourself with a few extra dollars to spend.
When that time comes, by all means buy your fancy copper or brass flask.
They are works of art and represent a historical period of time. They, just like the originals just aren't very durable.
When that time comes, by all means buy your fancy copper or brass flask.
They are works of art and represent a historical period of time. They, just like the originals just aren't very durable.
Rat Trapper
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I have a brass flask made by or at least sold by Knight that I bought back in 2003. I can put my measure up inside and then push the button to fill it with no spilling. While not fancy, it is pretty solid and seems to be made to last. I just recently bought a horn. Think I'll have some spill with the horn.
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AZMLII said:
One tip for the day you move into the field with that measure. The brass is slick, slick, slick with wet hands or some gloves. When you go to pressing on the plunger, it's going to want to spin in your hand, and especially if your hands are cold it's a real PITA.
I wrapped a length of leather strip (actually a boot lace) in tight coils pressed up against each other with the ends pulled back under the wraps to form a leather "band" about an inch wide. It's in just the right place for a non-slip grip on the flask, and it's a sincere game saver.
I have the same trouble with slick horns here in a wet climate, but for them I place engrailing in just the right place for secure grip.
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AZMLII said:
One tip for the day you move into the field with that measure. The brass is slick, slick, slick with wet hands or some gloves. When you go to pressing on the plunger, it's going to want to spin in your hand, and especially if your hands are cold it's a real PITA.
I wrapped a length of leather strip (actually a boot lace) in tight coils pressed up against each other with the ends pulled back under the wraps to form a leather "band" about an inch wide. It's in just the right place for a non-slip grip on the flask, and it's a sincere game saver.
I have the same trouble with slick horns here in a wet climate, but for them I place engrailing in just the right place for secure grip.
matt denison
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"
Just hold your finger tip over the end of the spout, press the spring loaded valve button to let it fill up with powder, release the valve button and then pour the spout full of powder down bore."
:nono:
Very very very bad idea.
It can get you killed really dead or someone near you. It will definately get you kicked off the range where I and friends shoot.
Trusting the spring loaded valve to close reliably and tightly is gambling. If you want to insist that it is OK to do that is your business as long you aren't doing it next to me. Let's not teach a new shooter that it is OK to load straight from ANY powder container. Always use a measure to limit how much powder (and size of explosion) when loading into a "hot" barrel.
Just hold your finger tip over the end of the spout, press the spring loaded valve button to let it fill up with powder, release the valve button and then pour the spout full of powder down bore."
:nono:
Very very very bad idea.
It can get you killed really dead or someone near you. It will definately get you kicked off the range where I and friends shoot.
Trusting the spring loaded valve to close reliably and tightly is gambling. If you want to insist that it is OK to do that is your business as long you aren't doing it next to me. Let's not teach a new shooter that it is OK to load straight from ANY powder container. Always use a measure to limit how much powder (and size of explosion) when loading into a "hot" barrel.
matt denison
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"
Just hold your finger tip over the end of the spout, press the spring loaded valve button to let it fill up with powder, release the valve button and then pour the spout full of powder down bore."
:nono:
Very very very bad idea.
It can get you killed really dead or someone near you. It will definately get you kicked off the range where I and friends shoot.
Trusting the spring loaded valve to close reliably and tightly is gambling. If you want to insist that it is OK to do that is your business as long you aren't doing it next to me. Let's not teach a new shooter that it is OK to load straight from ANY powder container. Always use a measure to limit how much powder (and size of explosion) when loading into a "hot" barrel.
Just hold your finger tip over the end of the spout, press the spring loaded valve button to let it fill up with powder, release the valve button and then pour the spout full of powder down bore."
:nono:
Very very very bad idea.
It can get you killed really dead or someone near you. It will definately get you kicked off the range where I and friends shoot.
Trusting the spring loaded valve to close reliably and tightly is gambling. If you want to insist that it is OK to do that is your business as long you aren't doing it next to me. Let's not teach a new shooter that it is OK to load straight from ANY powder container. Always use a measure to limit how much powder (and size of explosion) when loading into a "hot" barrel.
Instead of starting another thread on powder horns, I also have some questions. I've just started gathering information and I need some guidance on the powder horn hardware. There seems to be three basic spouts: 1) the valve with a squared off large opening, 2) valve with a tapered "pour" opening, and 3) pour spout, some with a short taper and some with a long taper.
And I guess you have the option of pouring straight from the opening in the horn without any kind of spout.
For filling a measure, what are the pros and cons of these different spouts.
And I guess you have the option of pouring straight from the opening in the horn without any kind of spout.
For filling a measure, what are the pros and cons of these different spouts.
Rat Trapper
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I have a brass flask that I can remove the valve and put a funnel in to fill. My adjustable charger fits in so there is no spilling when I open the flask to fill. I also have a horn with the regular old style end, and you spill some when using it. While the horn is more HC, they flask I have doesn't spill a lot of powder all over.
Sperit de bois
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AZMLII to answer your question;Most important the horn keeps your powder dry,carries enough for the time you will be out in the field.
You can load in what ever manner you want,just some are safer than others.From the flask directly into the barrel,,1.lb black powder Bomb in your hand next to your head,if there are no hot embers,,no problem,if there are hot embers,good chance you are dead,or atleast will learn to load one handed and blind.
Be very careful of ADVICE some impart,,,they arnt the one's getting hurt/killed.
My thinking :The person who pours directly from the flask/horn into the barrel,,, IS AN IDIOT.
90 grains of FFF down the barrel,swish, poof,flash,powder burns and a shower needed,1.lb Black powder in a closed container big mess to clean up,, from the shoulders down.
You can load in what ever manner you want,just some are safer than others.From the flask directly into the barrel,,1.lb black powder Bomb in your hand next to your head,if there are no hot embers,,no problem,if there are hot embers,good chance you are dead,or atleast will learn to load one handed and blind.
Be very careful of ADVICE some impart,,,they arnt the one's getting hurt/killed.
My thinking :The person who pours directly from the flask/horn into the barrel,,, IS AN IDIOT.
90 grains of FFF down the barrel,swish, poof,flash,powder burns and a shower needed,1.lb Black powder in a closed container big mess to clean up,, from the shoulders down.
Billnpatti
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Here is a pretty decent one at a great price
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/76/1/HORN-PL
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/76/1/HORN-PL
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I have a flask (actually 3 of them) and a horn, but use my flask almost exclusively. I just like it better. The one I like best is a civil-war era that was missing the spout. I had to have one machined as no one sells one of the correct thread size. No, it isn't as nice looking as a nice horn, but seems much more durable to me. BTW, my old flask has some dents, but no cracks or bad seams. My old horn has a crack, which I am in the process of repairing.
DOUBLEDEUCE 1
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I have the same type flask Roundball and Zonie mentioned. I think it is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I have the traditional type flasks also, but have been using the round one almost exclusively for the past several years. I like the plunger valve much better than the paddle/ swing valve type of the traditional flasks. The plunger is easier for me to use. As far as it getting slick to hold, when that happens, I leave it in the leather holder I carry it in to get a better grip. It was a gift from my brother, and one of the best dang things I have ever received. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
roundball said:A simple, inexpensive alternative until you get a better feel for what you ultimately want to do is use a brass powder flask. The brass nozzles are interchangeable in different sizes to serve as powder measures.
Just hold your finger tip over the end of the spout, press the spring loaded valve button to let it fill up with powder, release the valve button and then pour the spout full of powder down bore.
(or just fill your own powder measure from the flask)
I have these flasks in range boxes filled with Goex 4F as a convenient re-supply source to refill pan primers after every range session.
They run anywhere from $18-$22 bucks.
Here's one at Kittery up there in Maine. http://www.kitterytradingpost.com/product.php/pid/2/sid/6/tid/34/prodid/10868
I would not recommend anyone use the brass tube type flask. They are too strong, thick walled, and will not burst until the pressure is higher than if it were a horn with a pinned in base plug.
I won't use them.
The higher the pressure the worse the injury is likely to be in the unlikely event it has a "fast fire". Also powder horns are not good conductors of heat or electricity.
Gluing in powder horn base plugs is a bad idea for the same reason, is increases the pressure before something "vents".
I have a brass tube primer I really liked but I stopped using it for the same reason.
I am sure this is one reason that traditional powder flasks are so thin.
Also its a very bad idea to load from direct from the flask.
If someone thinks this hype I suggest that they test a simple nailed base horn, a horn with the base epoxied in and a brass tube flask see which one is the most "explosive" and throws fragments with the greatest force.
The more its contained the more destructive BP will be. For example a full case of BP in the current plastic bottles, fuse a center bottle and set it off. At most 4-5 others will fire, the rest are just scorched (a guy I know bought a bunch of powder that a distributor had tested in this way blackened labels and all).
The plastic fails at low pressure and the explosion is low order, a fast fire... Contain it too much and it starts to work "better".
Dan
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Billnpatti
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No matter what kind of powder container you finally choose, NEVER EVER LOAD DIRECTLY FROM YOUR CONTAINER, use a powder measure. Don't be an idiot. The danger from loading directly from your powder container are far too great and the results are far too disasterous. Do not do it!!! Always, always, always use a powder measure.
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