Conical for bull elk

[opsnorm]

Howdy all,

I'll be after rutting Arizona bulls this fall with my GPR .50. I have some deer & a javelina with a PRB, but I am going with the 1-32 twist GPH barrel and a conical for this hunt. The barrel is unfired and I have never shot conicals before. Initial bit of research has me looking at the 460gr No Excuses. I'd love to hear experienced recommendations for projectile, load and reasonable max range for acceptable terminal performance vs recoil. I have not done any of my own casting before and starting in on that is probably a bridge too far for me with an out of state move and a lot of other competing priorities this summer. Also, I have the Lyman tang peep sight and have done some target shooting, but never hunted with that sight. Would anyone call it too restrictive for a close encounter say, inside 50 yards?

Thanks

 

[R Ellis]

I use Maxi Balls and imo you cant do better but sure someone will disagree but it is a deadly bullet been using them for years

 

[fleener]

Are you recoil sensitive? A .50 cal slug at 460 grains is not an overly heavy bullet.

I know elk can be a tough animal to kill but think of all the millions of bison killed with a 45-70 and they can be a very tough animal to kill.

How many grains of powder are you thinking of? What kind of powder?

People IMO have a tendency to use way too much powder. I would be looking at most likely no more than 100 grains of powder and I would use Swiss. My might benefit from the use of wool and or fiber wad under your bullet.

Why a peep sight at such short yardage? Peep sights are not good in low light conditions and at 50 yards or less, you are looking at a lot of brown hair.

I would not hesitate to shoot an elk at 100 yards with a .50 cal conical. A peep sight will be helpful at 100 yards.

Fleener

 

[opsnorm]

Are you recoil sensitive? A .50 cal slug at 460 grains is not an overly heavy bullet.

I know elk can be a tough animal to kill but think of all the millions of bison killed with a 45-70 and they can be a very tough animal to kill.

How many grains of powder are you thinking of? What kind of powder?

People IMO have a tendency to use way too much powder. I would be looking at most likely no more than 100 grains of powder and I would use Swiss. My might benefit from the use of wool and or fiber wad under your bullet.

Why a peep sight at such short yardage? Peep sights are not good in low light conditions and at 50 yards or less, you are looking at a lot of brown hair.

I would not hesitate to shoot an elk at 100 yards with a .50 cal conical. A peep sight will be helpful at 100 yards.

Fleener

No, I don't believe I am particularly recoil sensitive although I figure that half-moon steel butt-plate, which is actually quite sharp, may get rather nasty when I increase my projectile to 250% of RB weight.

I am thinking of starting with around 80gr of Pyrodex RS. I have shot and hunted with Swiss before but find that I am able to reliably ignite Pyrodex with good results. 100gr is max for my gun and I have shot that with RBs but it seemed that 80gr was plenty good for the ~75 yard accuracy I was producing. Hoping to extend to 100-125 with the conicals.

I agree that 50 yards is very close for a peep and also that it would be nice at 100+ for eyes that aren't 25 years old anymore. I suppose a lot of that comes down to aperture size. Just curious if anyone regularly hunts with a peep.

 

[ETipp]

Are you recoil sensitive? A .50 cal slug at 460 grains is not an overly heavy bullet.

I know elk can be a tough animal to kill but think of all the millions of bison killed with a 45-70 and they can be a very tough animal to kill.

How many grains of powder are you thinking of? What kind of powder?

People IMO have a tendency to use way too much powder. I would be looking at most likely no more than 100 grains of powder and I would use Swiss. My might benefit from the use of wool and or fiber wad under your bullet.

Why a peep sight at such short yardage? Peep sights are not good in low light conditions and at 50 yards or less, you are looking at a lot of brown hair.

I would not hesitate to shoot an elk at 100 yards with a .50 cal conical. A peep sight will be helpful at 100 yards.

Fleener

Respectfully disagree with the peep sight comment. Nothing could be further from the truth. They are absolutely superior in poor light conditions especially up close. There was a good reason why military rifles have peeps.

It is absolutely important to have the correct size aperture in correlation with the front sight.

Also, a persons particular eyesight dictates what sight to use.

 

[ETipp]

Howdy all,

I'll be after rutting Arizona bulls this fall with my GPR .50. I have some deer & a javelina with a PRB, but I am going with the 1-32 twist GPH barrel and a conical for this hunt. The barrel is unfired and I have never shot conicals before. Initial bit of research has me looking at the 460gr No Excuses. I'd love to hear experienced recommendations for projectile, load and reasonable max range for acceptable terminal performance vs recoil. I have not done any of my own casting before and starting in on that is probably a bridge too far for me with an out of state move and a lot of other competing priorities this summer. Also, I have the Lyman tang peep sight and have done some target shooting, but never hunted with that sight. Would anyone call it too restrictive for a close encounter say, inside 50 yards?

Thanks

Your Lyman peep sight should be sufficient. If you are concerned about this, then drill out the aperture a little more. However, often times a taller front sight is required.

A proper size peep sight helps in poor light conditions, they do not make it worse. This is why military rifles were equipped with peeps for many years.

I had a Lyman 57 on my GPR but removed it. The reasons why was due to the big, blocky appearance. The other was I found that big boxy thing to be in the way for certain situations. But rest assured it is an accurate sight. I drilled out the aperture more and I had holes touching from 75 yards with round balls. Reason for drilling out the aperture more….better low light conditions.

In terms of conical, most anyone will work. Accuracy is key. The only kind I would not want to use for elk is any that is made from too soft of lead. You want penetration on big elk, not over-expansion. Some of those bulls are big.

I have killed elk with a .50 caliber Maxi Ball and it worked great. The distance was between 125 and 150 yards. I found the Maxi Ball almost through the offside hide.

However, there may be a better choice with a No Excuse conical. Let the rifle decide which one it likes best. Accuracy is key. A proper size conical that is paper patched will most likely provide the best accuracy.

My New Englander likes 80 grains of 3F black powder with a Maxi Ball.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I'm a prb guy all the way. However, that tight twist you have will do well with a conical. As I see it, the big downside is that a heavy conical has a big rainbow-like trajectory. Not knowing EXACTLY where your bullet will print a different ranges and not knowing EXACTLY what the range is to your target (animal) will put your bullet in front of or behind it because of that trajectory. In other words, your bullet is falling down instead of going towards the target. A prb has higher velocity and flatter trajectory. You need time on the range before going hunting.

 

[Sparkitoff]

I shot two elk, several different kinds of deer and some other big game with the No Excuse 460 grain. My rifle was 1:48 ROT. I used 80 grains 3F (I had Goex) and sighted in 2" high at 75-yards to be confident out to 100-yards. In spite of No Excuse reviews and other hyperbole, it does not "punch right through" big animals. I recovered the projectile from an elk on two occasions, both were shorter than original and worn out on the front. Nonetheless, they were accurate, heavy and got the job done. Just don't expect a magical bolt of lightning. I've used several other projectiles including a lot of PRB, but would not hesitate to use the No Excuse if the rifle was very accurate with them.

 

[longcruise]

Pay attention to the accuracy remarks. I'm sure you understand it clearly but reminders are valuable. The only elk I killed with a conical was with a 50 cal and 370 grain Maxi over 70 grains of 2f at 130 yards. I chose 70 gr because it was by far my best accuracy load and I practiced a lot with it. The elk lasted about 30 seconds after being hit. I'm not promoting the Maxi though. It just happened to work for me.

So, I'm in the accuracy over velocity camp at least within reason. It will be a costly venture to try a large number of conicals but you might be lucky and find a satisfactory one right off.

I wouldn't be overly concerned about bullet weight. I doubt there's a 50 conical that isn't heavy enough to be satisfactory.

 

[azmntman]

Yep, any well known conical will do the job. The reason yer using it VS the PRB is penetration (elk shoulders are tough). I say whatever projectile the rifle shoots accurately is THE ONLY CHOICE. Shoot em all. I have used Hornady Great Plains 370 gr hollow point hollow base very reliably. I will say a .54 in PRB dies VERY well also. Last years cow went 45-50 yards. 70 gr 3f

Shoot whatever gr of powder the rifle shoots MOST accurately. 3f 2f whatever. I wouldn't go less than 70 gr and suspect you will settle between 70-85 for accuracy. PRACTICE, know your rifles trajectory and a range finder.

PICTURES or it never happened. After opening day the rule is "a trophy bull is a bull in the freezer" . Best eating will be a 3 point or a spike. I have had some excellent table ware out of a big bodied medium rack 6 pt thou.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I shot two elk, several different kinds of deer and some other big game with the No Excuse 460 grain. My rifle was 1:48 ROT. I used 80 grains 3F (I had Goex) and sighted in 2" high at 75-yards to be confident out to 100-yards. In spite of No Excuse reviews and other hyperbole, it does not "punch right through" big animals. I recovered the projectile from an elk on two occasions, both were shorter than original and worn out on the front. Nonetheless, they were accurate, heavy and got the job done. Just don't expect a magical bolt of lightning. I've used several other projectiles including a lot of PRB, but would not hesitate to use the No Excuse if the rifle was very accurate with them.

Well done and well stated. As I suggest, you KNOW from practice, where yer rifle gun prints.

 

[fleener]

In dim light a fully dilated pupil is 8 mm. Anything less than that size is restricting light coming into your eye.

I seem to shoot most of my stuff right at last minute of the day when light is terrible.

I love using a peep sight for both hunting and target work. Just like any sight, there are advantages and disadvantages.

I have a .54 rifle setup with open barrel sights and a peep sight. Just depending on what is needed.

Fleener

 

[fleener]

Like others have stated, you got to be more careful with a conical making sure you know your yardage, or you have a greater chance of having a bad shot.

I like stated prior, try some wads if you are getting poor accuracy. You might be surprised on how it can shrink your groups.

Fleener

 

[Spikebuck]

Can't speak to shooting elk, but can to using peeps for hunting...and well under 50 yards too! I have shot whitetails at very close range...10-15 yards...no problem with peeps.

I normally use a .125 aperture for hunting and it allows me good shooting dusk to dawn. A .150 aperture is also good for hunting, but during full daylight hours when pupils are small, I do start to see slight degradation of the group size at 100 yards with that larger aperture. Still very much minute-of-deer, but my group opens a little. Of course, as there is less light and one's pupil dilates, the increased aperture size won't matter and will allow extra light through. I like Williams Twilight apertures for hunting.

I like to just "change out" apertures rather than permanently drilling them out. They are not expensive. When sighting in a rifle I like to use smaller apertures (.093 usually) to really zero in on the best potential for that rifle. When hunting I carry the .125 and .150 so I can quickly change them if conditions better warrant one or the other.

 

[Reds]

Mine was all taken with a .54 TC Hawkens using 92gr 777 2f and handcast TC Maxi-Balls. None traveled over 100 yards. Hope this helps, Reds

 

[Christophero]

I've shot nearly 1,000 T/C Maxihunter conical bullets from various 1/48" twist barrels in years past. Those were 355 grains pushed to 1,180fps with 65 grains of fffg. Sighted 2" high at 50 yards they would consistently center the bullseye at 100. Gallon water jugs didn't stand a chance when set out 125 yards. They don't drop like a rock. Kills Whitetail well.

If I were to go after bull elk the Maxiball would be employed. Less likely to flatten out too much to impede penatration.

Expect a tracking job no matter what you use.

 

[Reds]

Christopher, where those .50cal or .54cal. I shoot the 470 .54s but thought there was also a lighter .54 as well! Thanks Reds

 

[opsnorm]

Can't speak to shooting elk, but can to using peeps for hunting...and well under 50 yards too! I have shot whitetails at very close range...10-15 yards...no problem with peeps.

I normally use a .125 aperture for hunting and it allows me good shooting dusk to dawn. A .150 aperture is also good for hunting, but during full daylight hours when pupils are small, I do start to see slight degradation of the group size at 100 yards with that larger aperture. Still very much minute-of-deer, but my group opens a little. Of course, as there is less light and one's pupil dilates, the increased aperture size won't matter and will allow extra light through. I like Williams Twilight apertures for hunting.

I like to just "change out" apertures rather than permanently drilling them out. They are not expensive. When sighting in a rifle I like to use smaller apertures (.093 usually) to really zero in on the best potential for that rifle. When hunting I carry the .125 and .150 so I can quickly change them if conditions better warrant one or the other.

Excellent info, thank you

 

[opsnorm]

In dim light a fully dilated pupil is 8 mm. Anything less than that size is restricting light coming into your eye.

I seem to shoot most of my stuff right at last minute of the day when light is terrible.

I love using a peep sight for both hunting and target work. Just like any sight, there are advantages and disadvantages.

I have a .54 rifle setup with open barrel sights and a peep sight. Just depending on what is needed.

Fleener

Thanks Fleener,

When you say that you have a rifle “setup with open barrel sights and a peep sight”, do you mean you have both attached with the ability to flip back and forth quickly? I think this would be ideal, but the Lyman 57 can’t be removed quickly that I know of to allow for an “in the moment” flip to an open barrel sight.

 

[opsnorm]

Like others have stated, you got to be more careful with a conical making sure you know your yardage, or you have a greater chance of having a bad shot.

I like stated prior, try some wads if you are getting poor accuracy. You might be surprised on how it can shrink your groups.

Fleener

Any favorite wads you’d recommend?