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conical in a smoothbore

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stalkerhawk

40 Cal.
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I have a question? Has any one used conicals in a smoothbore? I have a .62 cal with a 32 in. barrel I'd like to try out.I dont have any idea where to even find any .62 cal conicals. Any info whould be appreciated.
 
I don't know how they might shoot, but maybe you can locate some 20 ga. rifled slugs (heads only) and give them a whack...should be around 3/4 ounce and .62 cal. is 20 ga. I think. If thy go out the front O-K, the twist pattern in the slugs may help in the long range dept.

Just a crazy thought, outside of the "box", if you know what I mean.

Dave
 
They are going to tumble because there is no rifling to stablize them. And besides, there is nothing on this continent that you can't take with a .62 caL. rd ball.
 
Rebel - You are on the money. Yesterday, I got invited to shoot with a couple of friends we were shooting at a gong about 40 yds away. It was heavy steel plate and I was shooting about 90 grs of 3F in it - the dent in the steel were pretty impressive - I shot an elk once with a .600 RB with 90 or 100 grs of 2F - the ball completely penetrated the elk from about 15 or 20 yds. He was a small roosevelt elk, a spike that weighed about 550 lbs or so. Didn't go very far at all.
 
I purchased a packet of Lyman shot gun slugs a few years ago (they have an appearance like a shuttlecock). They are designed to slip into a plastic shot cup. With 75 grains FFg they worked fine. However, I get better groups in my centermark fusil with patched.600RB and I agree with Rebel that a 62 grain RB is just as effective as any slug but if you are looking for something that works reasonably well, check out the lyman mold section on their site. I think you will find that the drop in trajectory with this slug/shotcup combination is much greater than the plain old round ball.
 
Good question, my next BP gun buy is probably going to be a .62 smoothie. I read about the Lyman mold on another thread, seems like it would work but don't know about the trajectory drop.
 
I havent done a lot of trying with the Lyman 20 345gr slug # 2654020 in my smooth bore underhammers but the 3 or 4 shots just tumbled and it wont go in with a 20 plastic hull, its so undersize Ive had to wrap it with a little paper or spread the bottom to stay in one of my rifled ones - it shots ok like that, it may be barrel size's but Ive tryed it in 3 rifles and even TVMs 20 twin handgun (perc) and it kicks REALLY good in all of them. FRED :hatsoff:
 
YOu are wasting your time trying to use 20 gauge conicals in your .62 smoothie. They are no more accurate than a round ball in most guns. The problem is that most of the slugs, to save weight, are hollow based, and when the front heavy slug slows in the air, it acts like a badmitton birdie coming down over the net. It wobbles back and forth, and can be easily moved by any gust of wind.The Hollow base saves your shoulder, but at the cost of losing axial stability for the projectile. Because you have no rifling to rotate the slug, it does not maintain its flight on the same line. Now if you use a solid slug, either a very short one to save weight and your shoulder, or a long one that will definitely loosen your teeth, You don't have the problem of projectile design costing you axial stability: you just have a slug designed to be fired out of a rifled barrel to make it spin, and stay on a single line of trajectory. Absent the spin, it becomes unpredictable after it slows down to the speed of sound(1100 fps).

Stick with the round ball in the 20. Measure your bore with calipers. Then order the correct sized ball and patch them. Track has .595 and .600. There are some .605" balls out there, and you can order special molds for other sizes.

The " Secret " to round ball accuracy in a smoothbore is to keep the speed at or below the speed of sound leaving the barrel. A .600" diameter ball weighs in at about 235 grains, which is 3/4 oz. Inside 75 yards, it will penetrate both sides of an Elk, and any deer you might find to shoot. I know shooters who have killed deer out to 125 yards with a 20 ga. round ball, but they will admit they thanked their lucky stars, and years of practice for having made that shot. Most of their deer fall inside 50 yards, just like the majority of White tails taken every year.

Try using a 2 3/4 dram load( 75 grains of FFg) with a overpowder wad, then your PRB. The thickness of the patching you use will be determined by your bore diameter, so don't GUESS! measure it with calipers. My barrel if oversized, and I have to use 19 gauge wads to seal it. Then try shooting it from the bench with the barrel bare, with only lube on your patch, and alternately, by running a lubed cleaning patch down the barrel after you seat the ball. My tests indicate I get a little extra velocity lubing the barrel, but that standard deviation in velocity is measurably improved( less). That means the ball is leaving the barrel at close to the same velocity with each shot, improving the consistency of the gun's performance. All that is left is for me to practice enough to be able to consistently point the gun at the target acurately each time I fire. A rear sight of any kind helps me do this better.
 
I shoot a Potsdam musket,.72 cal. and use 69 gr. 2f goex. Since I shoot with the N-SSA we are not allowed to use a patch. We shoot alot in a match or individuals the old cheek bone in the face takes a pounding but when I reduce loads accuracy suffers. I have a theory....Heavy loads in canon and unpatched smoothbore is better because the gasses that by pass the ball(the windage) accually form a cushion around the ball,centering it and the ball does not contact the bore. I have a .710 ball that I roll between two files and dip in a lube of bees wax and olive oil. This brings the the dia. to .715 and holds the lube nicely. Then we try to break as many targets, as fast as we can.
 
One of the great things about this hobby is the wide variety of things to play with, check out, use, etc.

But like some others I am also curious about the interest in a .62cal conical or slug.

The .600dia ball for a .62cal weighs 325grns...a really heavy payload as it is...and I'm not sure a .20ga slug would weigh any more...possibly not as much given it's hollow base...dunno.
 
stalkerhawk said:
I have a question? Has any one used conicals in a smoothbore?
If you're looking for an historical precedent, then the French Nessler bullet was used in smooth-bores in the Crimean War (1856-56). It was also copied and used by the Sardinians and Russians.

The Nessler bullet is like a short smooth sided round nosed Minie, however the base cavity included a projecting cone like point.

They were reportedly superior to the spherical ball. Russian trials noted in "The War Correspondent" (journal of the Crimean War Research Socity) reported hit percentages of 44% on company sized targets at 350 meters and 20% at 500 meters. For the spherical ball only 3 to 4% hits at more than 300 metres and no useful accuracy or power beyond 400 metres is noted.

Contemporary testing suggests that some of the results may have been over-stated.

There is also some reference to testing of a (presumed) similar design bullet by W.B. Chace in the US. The range when the Chace bullet was fired from a musket and when compared to a round-ball cartridge from the same musket was increased by a third. See Joe Bilby's "Civil War Firearms".

The Nessler bullet was not used in Britain and despite some testing in the US was not adopted.

David
 
Bert: If you are right, there will be no leading in your barrel. Just run a patch soaked in lead solvent down the barrel. If it doesn't bring out lead, or turn green, you are probably right. I doubt it. The biggest problems in using bare balls in a oversized smooth barrel is that gravity pulls the ball to the bottom of the barrel, leaving a greater space at the top. When the gases blow by, they rattle the ball from side to side and up and down. Now, if you seal the gases with a good wad, The ball will tend to want to center in the wad, or, more appropriately, the wad will try to apply pressure evenly on the back side of the ball. Gravity is still going to drag that ball along the bottom of the barrel, and that is where you are likely to find a streak of lead in your barrel.

I owned a wonderful, chromed- bore, 12 gauge, O/U , breechloading shotgun, which was a joy to clean, except there was always a streak of plastic from the wads on the bottom of the barrel. No matter what I did, that streak was always there to remind me that gravity is a constant on this planet.
 
As I wrote above the slug is 345 grs so it isnt much help by weight, what really has bothered me is it can when put in just bare is slide right back out or sit 1/2 way down the barrel when you shoot..not a good thing one way or the other. The same Lyman BP book with the Forgett in Africa story has another one about hunting with big ball guns, it sounds like the 62/20 ball can take anything in the America's out to 150 yds with no big deal. (if you can shoot) this guy shot up hill with a 58 minie around 400 yds 6 times (straight up hill/400 yds) the 5th shot got this moose and he walked off 50 yds and was found dead lay against a tree. :shocked2: What little Ive done with this 20 slug I cant really see any help with a rifled rifle and the smooth is hopeless. Fred :hatsoff:
 
The .62 Rifle can take game out to 150 yards. A smoothie is only good for about 100 yards, because
without spinning the ball, the groups spreads dramatically at further ranges.
 
Fred, if you're interested in a little project this summer that's not very expensive, you might consider having your smoothbore 'rifled'.

I had Ed Rayl in West Va add .012" x 1:72 square bottom grooves to a GM .62cal Flint smoothbore barrel ($65)...incredibly accurate with an Oxyoke wad, .018" pillow ticking, and a .600 ball.
 
Ive got a screw on thing I built that fits about any ML kind of like the one Dixie sells and a scope that goes up to X 22 , Ive always wanted to try some 100 yarders to see what it would do BUT just because this one barrel did good or bad at 100 it wouldnt prove a thing but how good or bad thisw one is. I shot the last 3 conicals I have made up with 70grs 2f at 4X6 from 15,20,25 yards today EVERYONE hit sideways flatting them. Kind of end of story for me , BUT somehow the get them to come out of shotguns ok? ? :hmm: maybe put a tail on them :rotf: Fred :hatsoff:
 
thanks all.seems like I'll stick with the round ball.I didnt know that the slug was close to the same weight as the RB.I just thought that with more weight I'd have more knock down power.I've thought about taking a trip to alaska and using it on kodiak bear.RoundBall can you give me contact info for the guy who rifled your .62 I've got another on the way and thought I'd make it a rifle. man this is fun :hatsoff:
 
My old Potsdam was closer to .70 caliber bore and shot reasonably well the .69 Minie ball from the old Lyman mold. Even had some fun shooting them reversed! Accuracy was pitiful but impact was awesome!! :haha:
 
I was born in Alk and want to go back to hunt a few things while and if I can, everyone and it's been about 2 dozen guys on here said the 62 will take anything you'll find, ( some do use two balls at once on BIG bears) One guy told me of a guy selling a 12 g shotgun barrel so I had it set up for my H+A underhammer, my thinking is it takes 15 seconds or less to change barrels so I can start with my smooth 62 for up close, 62 Zepher 610 ball and 180 grs 2f, and the 12 g, I shouldnt run into much I cant drop if I get 45 seconds :rotf: Fred :hatsoff:
 
Mr. Fred,
As you may remember, a Grizz can cover 50 yards in about 3 SECONDS!
Food for thought. :winking:
Some days are like that. :redface:
Best Wishes
(no disrespect intended)
 

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