conical in a smoothbore

[roundball]

Mr. Fred,
As you may remember, a Grizz can cover 50 yards in about 3 SECONDS!
Food for thought. :winking:
Some days are like that. :redface:
Best Wishes
(no disrespect intended)

I suspect Fred's .45 second comment was tongue-in-cheek considering the ROTFL icon after the comment.

If it wasn't...then we might as well start a Memorial Fund collection for Fred right now :grin:

 

[faw3]

"As you may remember, a Grizz can cover 50 yards in about 3 SECONDS!"
I know to well as my mom likes to tell for the last 57 years about the one that tryed to eat her and me a few months before I was born in Fairbanks. Roundball is right about the :rotf: if my health gets any better I'll try to get home to get one, and the 3 barrels in 15 seconds is right BUT I think if I get a shot the first one better do it, I dont think the the con out of the Zep 120X1 twist barrel even with 180 grs of 2f will do any better than 2 62 balls out of the smooth bore they seem to stick together very well to 40 to 50 yds and make a heck of a hole :shocked2: I would try the 12 with a ball but Ive never got to trust my ball placement with it, seems to wander some at that 40/50 yd line ?? (it isnt the power, the 2 .600's have more of a push to them)Still this may be a dream I run out of time on, but thanks much. FRED :hatsoff:

 

[Tumblernotch]

I was messin' around one day and shot some Ideal .69 Minies in my Charleville. No accuracy past 25 yds because the ball started tumbling almost immediately. But like you said, the impact even on a clay bank is quite impressive. :grin:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Those need to be within .002" of bore size, if the skirt is to expand enough to seal off gases. Some shooters pack the hollow base with grease, and then use an Over powder wad to push against the skirt, letting hydraulic pressure from the wad pushing on the grease to spread the skirt sideways and fit the bore. You can't expect too much expansion from these conicals, so do what you must to make them fit. Then you can work up a load that will give them better accuracy at longer distances than 25 yds. I know with rifled barrels, that you can get accurate groups out to 100 yds with these conicals. I understand that at some time, there were wooden plugs made to fit into the hollow bases of the conicals to make them expand.

 

[faw3]

The walls are'nt that thick that you can't put the pin in and one roll around they will fit - a big worry of mine. I saw last night I could drop the pin about 1/8 th" I'm wondering how bad that will throw one out of wack, it would about make weight close to a 1/3 more. May try one of those today for the heck of it. Fred :hatsoff:

 

[MercerLake]

:grin: Why not just try reloading rather than trying to switch loaded barrels? :shake: Bears can cover alot of ground very fast, like 40mph thru alders and they generally go the way they are looking when hit. :hmm:
A good friend with a big gun to stand in the way could be a great help! :haha: Good luck!!

 

[faw3]

True , I hadnt thought of just throwing a load down that in paper. If I can do that in less than 15 sec's I'll go that way, as of now if I get to go it will be alone. ( I do have a back up hand gun that twin 20/62 from MVT it will shoot 2 600's out of each barrel :shocked2: and hurts the shooter should do something on the other end. :rotf: )

 

[smokeblower]

A .69 mini loaded backward, that would be the mother of all hollow points. :thumbsup:

 

[Tumblernotch]

The Minies I shot were very tight and I used the regulation 70 gr. charge. There was enough expansion, but without rifling there's no way to stabilize a bullet as long and nose heavy as these are.

 

[faw3]

What makes them work in a shotgun made today ? ? Anyone? FRED :hatsoff:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Themodern(?) foster style slug has vanes cut or cast in to the sides of the conical. These do NOT rotate the conical in flight. Instead, they allow a variation in bare dimension and the vanes collapse as they are forced through the Throat, just in front of the chamber, and through any choke at the muzzle. Velocity, and substantial base wads keep the skirts from breaking the instant the conical leaves the muzzle provide the accuracy, such as it is.

I have a marrel that I reamed the throat out to make alonger tapered throat, and then had ports cut into the barrel to divert gases and reduce muzzle rise. The gun with iron sights is capable of one hole groups at 50 yds. I shot three shots one day off-hand, and all the holes were touching in the center of the target. A friend fired the other two rounds in the box, and his two shots struck just a little higher and to the sides of the original group. The whole 5 shot group, shot by two shooters, off-hand, was less then 3 inches. My three shot group was only slightly over 1 inch.

My friend had never shot a ported shotgun, nor one with an elongated throat. He noticed the substantial reduction in recoil, and the lack of muzzle rise. He didn't know it could be done, much less how to do it. And, while he had fired slugs from shotguns during his police days, he had never seen a gun shoot such a small group- in his hands or anyone else- in his life. He mumbled about that for weeks. Oh, after I fired my first shot, he said I must have missed the target. We walked down and took a look, and i had taken the center X out of the target. I then went back and fired the next to slugs, which touched the first. Then he fired his two, after we scored mine, and opened the group. It looked like a Teddy bear face, with two eyes, and a large nose, made from bullet holes. He put his palm over the group, and it covered it easily. I later measured it.

I only shared that story because I really believe that my tapered throat gently centers the slub in the barrel, rather than distorting the bottom side, and that makes the slugs group smaller. If you take apart a commercial slug round, you will find a lot of card and cushion wads behind the slug. That is the only thing that can possibly explain why the foster slug shoots accurately out of many different shotgun barrels. There are some core ideas to learn from all that factory research over a hundred years, that came from, and still applies to shooting conicals out of BP smoothbores.

 

[faw3]

I was going to say "I DONT UNDERSTAND "about the first part till I got to " If you take apart a commercial slug round, you will find a lot of card and cushion wads behind the slug. That is the only thing that can possibly explain why the foster slug shoots accurately out of many different shotgun barrels." Kind of the same thing if you had a tail on a kite, or the old grenades that had tails you could throw sideways at a tank and it would fly straight when the tail type shute came out.......I'll try to make time to shoot a few 100 yds sometime this weekend with scope. FRED :hatsoff:

 

[paulvallandigham]

I THINK YOU ARE PICTURING The Brenneke slug, which actually screws the wads to the base of the slug. With the foster style slug, it looks much like a minie ball, but with the vanes on the sides. The vanes reduce friction as the slug passes down the barrel, and as I noted before, allow the slug to pass through the throat of the gun without being distorted. The wads behind the foster slug is not attached to it, but simply seal off the gases while it makes the jump from the casing through the throat, and then through the choke if there is any. Its mostly the velocity that gives the foster slug any accuracy. The 1 1/8 oz. slug is rated at 1520 fps. and the 1 oz slug at 1680 fps. Both slugs come down through the sound barrier at about 80 yards, and accuracy is iffy at 100 yards, and only gets worse further out. I have a friend who designed the most accurate slug for smoothbore shotguns that exists, but its not available commercially. He modified his design a few years ago to be shot out of rifled barrels, and he could shoot 2 1/2 inch groups at 100 yds off-hand, as fast as his Remington 1100 could fire 5 rounds. He used to win bets that he could put five shots into someone's baseball cap at 100 yards shooting off-hand and using his slugs. A lot of $20 bills passed hands, and hats were ventilated for guys who doubted him. I don't know any of those guys who has not proudly kept their hats as trophies. If you ask them, it was worth it to see him put 5 slugs into their hats at that range shooting off-hand and as fast as he could bring his front sight on the target. He did not have rifle sights on his gun.

With his slug, a scope and a rest, you produce a single slightly enlarged hole in the paper at 100 yards, using either a smoothbore, or a rifled barrel with his slugs.

 

[faw3]

Intresting.. :hmm: I was just thinking on the screen above. If you ever get (I think Worlds Fighting Shotguns0 you cant belive some of the stuff like darts thar kill people at 200 yds (20 to a shell) or the 12g M16 fullauto. My Rem 1100 puts out 6 shots before the first shell hits the ground or near same time. OK Ive got the scope on one of the smooth 62's and a box of RB's now if the kids hadnt got out of school, Im just going to shoot for grp at 50 and 100, but its going to take a few days. Sooo lets see if I glue a long strip of cloth in the conical and put a # 4 buck at the end so it all comes out like a tail when ya fire.... :rotf: Fred :hatsoff:

 

[paulvallandigham]

That tail will drag the ball down very quickly, Fred. Don't expect it to even make it to the 100 yard target.

 

[faw3]

Not in a ball but inside that deep hallow on in the conical..it's a :rotf: I dont have time to even think of doing the really cray stuff trying to find a time that all the kids out of school wont be running across my 1000 yd range in ATV's, happy I only rent this place. This is a real good barrel but I dont know that it will shoot balls that well at anything over 50. we will see. Fred :hatsoff:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Fred: If you look at the Ballistic's Products catalogue, they sell a round ball shotgun " slug " with a plastic tail screwed to the ball. They call it an " AQ " This was originally made by an Italian firm, and I shot some of them years ago in testing my slug barrel. At 50 yds. they grouped about 7 inches. At 100 yds, it was hard to put one in 5 on a 24 inch square target. They started wobbling at about 60 yds, and by 75 yards were all over the place. Tails on round balls just don't work.

 

[faw3]

Tails on round balls just don't work.
To be sure! :shake: what Im trying to figure out is why the Foster slug comes out near sideways 15' from muzzle ? or 9it could of hit and turned that way? That same book had some wasp waist things Sp Ops used in late 60s that was good to 150 tyds and better, the besyt one was from Argentina a police round that shot a 12g grenade into a car stunning or killing everyone, anti turrist round ya know :shake: Fred :hatsoff: Keep a smileing I did get 3 in a big 3" hole at 50 about dark.

 

[Bert]

Has anyone tried taking a .750 ball or there abouts and sizing it down to something like .005 under your bore size and shooting it lubed and unpatched?

 

[paulvallandigham]

Sure. That is how the first experiments began with making a 12 gauge slug. It still doesn't spin, and without that spinning, it flies like a knuckle ball thrown in ML baseball. ABove a certain speed, it flies true. Then, it goes someplace else. In the majors, that someplace is usually about 6 inches in front of your bat!