conicals?

[TrevorAaron]

would any one reccomend using conicals over round balls?? is there any more accuracy? recoil? i shoot a 50 cal new englander

thanks aaron

 

[Trench]

I have never shot conicals, as round balls do a great job for my purposes. The only reason I could see going to a heavy, more expensive bullet would be:

1. I need to hit targets consistantly over 100 yds away.

2. The game I'm hunting requires through-and-through penetration at any angle at ranges over 100 yards.

3. My rifle just won't shoot a darn with anything else.

 

[gmww]

would any one reccomend using conicals over round balls?? is there any more accuracy? recoil? i shoot a 50 cal new englander

thanks aaron

This has been a long debate over the years. Bottom line its personal choice. I subscribe to whatever floats your canoe. I use them both.

 

[nw_hunter]

"Well"The recoil will definitely be more with the heavier conical, using the same load.Accuracy? Depends on the barrel twist for the most part, and the shooter :grin:One of the forum members(Rebel) had a NE T/C that got great groups with the conicals, and RB.He casts his own "REAL" bullets and the gun really liked them.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Do you understand WHY we generally recommend using a Patched Round Ball( PRB)???

Generally, MLers are shot using open sight. The limitation of such sights, and the ability of the shooters to shoot small groups using open sights is such that 100 yds. is a long distance for shooting at game.

The Whitetail deer is by far the most common big game animal hunted using MLers. It is a thin skinned animal, with relatively small, thin bones.

A PRB will complete penetrate the body of a whitetail deer on any kind of broadside shot out to 100 yards and further, assuming you are using a .50 cal. or large diameter gun. PRB can be shot accurately out of any ROT barrel, while conicals generally require a faster ROT, and usually, shallower grooves than are cut in a RB barrel. If your NE MLer is .50 caliber, but has deep grooves, ( .010"-.012" deep), and a ROT rifling of at least 1:48", then it is really intended to shoot the PRB. If the grooves are cut shallow- .005 approx.--- then its intended to be used with a properly sized conical bullet. Some short conicals like the LEE R.E.A.L. bullet are specifically designed to use in these "slow" twist barrels( 1:48 or slower) Sometimes they get great accuracy using these conicals. You will feel more recoil using the heavy slugs.

Most of us feel its more important to accurately place your ball or bullet in the game for a clean, quick kill, than to miss it, or hit it in the wrong part of the body with a monster bullet. For most shooters, you are more likely to practice shooting your gun before the season opens, every year, if you are shooting PRB, which are lighter in weight, and also cheaper to shoot, than if you are shooting conicals( bullets) out of the gun. Practice is required for accurate shooting when hunting.

FINALLY, the main reason re recommend the PRB for hunting, is because a PURE LEAD BALL will expand even at very low velocities. Compared to a modern deer rifle caliber, such as the .308 Winchester cartridge, instead of beginning with a .30 caliber hole in the der, you begin with a .50 caliber hole! That .30 caliber bullet won't expand to .50 caliber in that deer. The .50 caliber ball, going much slower, however, will expand to approx. .75 caliber, or larger going through the deer, leaving a HUGE PRIMARY WOUND channel, compared to what is left by that .30 caliber bullet.

Now comparing that conical bullet to a PRB, you rarely get any expansion at all with conicals, unless they hit a very solid bone. Until you get to the Old Mule Deer, or Elk, Caribou, and Moose species of the deer family, you won't find bones heavy enough to expand those conicals. So, you are left with a .50 caliber hole. NEXT, some conicals have a terrible reputation for diverting from the POA( point of aim) and veering off in another direction as soon as they hit flesh. The Round Ball, having no edges, keeps going straight in line with the POA, with notorious regularity.

If you put your sights on a deer, where vital organs are behind your POA, those will be the organs damaged by your PRB. All you need to do is bone up on deer anatomy and make that one shot count, and you take home meat.

The bottom line is that a conical is expensive, gives more recoil, and is just not necessary, or desirable to use when hunting Whitetail deer. Hunt Wild Boar, and now the conical comes into its own, and is superior to the RB, unless brain shots are taken by both. Hunt Black Bear, and shoot any bear over 250 lbs., and the conical is probably the better choice.

Its your choice, of course. I personally believe that you will shoot your gun more, and enjoy shooting it more if you shoot a PRB instead of the conicals. :thumbsup:

 

[Blizzard of '93]

Paul V pretty well nailed it.

 

[cowpoke1955]

I totally agree :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[Vaino]

I've shot deer and elk w/ 410 gr. Buffalo Bullets and PRBs in both .50 and .54 cal. and haven't noticed any difference in "killing power" of either...both were excellent. The recoil of the 410 gr. conical is greater than the PRB but if one is not recoil sensitive, it's not an issue. The reasons I now use only a PRB are two...better trajectory{ much smaller midrange height w/ a 100 yd. zero}} and the fact that conicals move off the charge w/ a clean bbl and it's a pain to periodically check if the conical is setting on the charge. I've actually had the conical move 6" up the bore a few times. As was said previously..it's all personal preference....Fred

 

[Rat Trapper]

I use the Hornady great plains bullets in both my 50 & 54 ca TC Hawken rifles. Have shot a bunch of deer with conicals. Never had any problems with them on deer and next fall I plan to take a black bear with my 54 and the 390 gr hollow point great plains bullet. I use round balls in my smaller guns for target or small game hunting.

 

[Bob Gular]

In my .50 caliber rifles I use round ball for deer and heavier conicals for elk. One of the reasons is the 210 grain minimum weight requirement where I do my elk hunting. The other reason is the bone penetrating energy of the conical. With my .54 and up guns I use round ball only and have found the performance to be more than adequate. I have also found that good hunting skills and proper shot placement trump everything else. Get good with what you have!

 

[Kentuckywindage]

I started using the 247gr Thor in a Cabelas hawken. The groups it prints @ 100 yards is just awesome. They are pure copper bullet.
1.5 to 2x bullet expansion is normal for these bullets. They'll penetrate a 1/4" slab of steel.

90gr 3f goex,

We're going to give these a try this year and see how they do.

Just a thought on if you want to try something new to conicals.

 

[Cosmoline]

I understand and appreciate where the traditional PRB crowd come from. I love shooting the things. However, if you're actually hunting something bigger and possibly meaner than the typical lower 48 deer then the roudball begins to create physical problems. Pretty much like the ones Lewis & Clark ran into when they shot griz over and over again with roundballs, or the similar experience Europeans had in Africa first trying to bring down the big five.

The ball has horrible ballistic coefficient and horrible sectional density. Its big advantages are in ease of loading, ease of casting, and minimal weight for diameter. Plus it uses the minimum amount of lead. But it loses velocity fast and its shape limits its penetration compared with conicals. Esp. if its deforming. It's just about ideal for the close hunting of medium deer in the east, but it is less than ideal for other applications as has been shown by centuries of difficulties killing said critters.

The only way to deal with the really big critters with traditional front stuffers, from all I've read on the subject, is to either enlarge the bore to allow for truly enormous roundballs OR to change the twist rate and shoot slug or conicals. Either method, done properly, will work. I'm currently questing for a suitably large roundball gun, though the more I study on the subject the larger my requirements get. Against brown bear for example you really should move into the realm of the 10 bore or larger among heavy smoothbores or at least a .69 in rifles, and those are slim pickings. A .54 will do, or a .58 or .62, but they're not sure enough. The ball must deliver both significant bone-breaking force and have the sheer mass and diameter to stop the beast with one shot, because it's going to take too long to reload. Or you could have some guys next to you with modern slug guns, but that sort of defeats the whole purpose in my mind.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

There's an Ithaca Hawken for sale in the ads section that shoots outstanding groups at 250 yards with slugs. It does this with a 1-in-66" patched ball twist so this this will probably seem miraculous to experienced shooters, but the ad says it can do it. Depending on slug weight and powder charge, this piece can do it all. The price is a bit steep, but for this kind of power and accuracy, you might want to consider it. Or not.... :v

 

[bart_anastasi]

When I got into this a long time ago I got some very good advice from a fella. for my 54 Renegade

Get yourself a good Deer bullet for me a .535 Dia RB
Get yourself a good Bear Bullet for me a 425 Gr Maxi Ball

Practice

In my gun and owners manual it says I can use up to 120 grains of FF for either load and it works.

If you are going to shoot big animals and you only have a 50 cal gun long bullets are the way to go.

I recently got some 525 grain 50 cal conventional hunter bullets for my new 50 cal flintlock. With 100 grains of FF I expect to duplicate the hitting power of a Sharps 50-90

What I am trying to say is that while PC is great but we also owe what we shoot some consideration.

 

[tg]

Solid copper bullets? that has to be crossing the line,or this forum is in the bottom of the septic tank.

 

[gmww]

I understand and appreciate where the traditional PRB crowd come from. I love shooting the things. However, if you're actually hunting something bigger and possibly meaner than the typical lower 48 deer then the roudball begins to create physical problems. Pretty much like the ones Lewis & Clark ran into when they shot griz over and over again with roundballs, or the similar experience Europeans had in Africa first trying to bring down the big five.

Some folks just get a big round ball for Africa. :grin:

 

[LocDoc]

I guess I'm mid-stream on this one. I prefer the Buffalo Bullet Ball-et, which is half conical and half round ball. I get good accuracy, ease of loading, and since they weigh in at 245 and 270 grains; not a lot of recoil. Now if someone can point me in the direction of a mold for them....

 

[Kentuckywindage]

Solid copper bullets? that has to be crossing the line,or this forum is in the bottom of the septic tank.

hey when it comes to hunting, you use what you are comfortable with. This just looked like a fun bullet to try out this year. Never seen a solid copper conical for a muzzleloader before.

 

[paulvallandigham]

The size of the MLer's ball makes a huge difference when hunting Big Game larger than a Whitetail deer. A .58, or .62 caliber Round Ball will take anything that walks this continent, within reasonable range, and further than most people can use iron sights accurately. Add to that fact what has already be noted, that "Hardened Lead Ball" Offer even deeper penetration capabilities than a pure lead ball, and the preference for conicals is a bit tenuous.

You live in Alaska, where every thing is, or seems bigger, than what you perceive exists down on the Lower 48. But, failing to acknowledge the ability of a pure lead ball to expand and create a HUGE primary wound cavity is NOT making your argument in favor of using conicals better.

Elk, Moose, Caribou, and other ungulates have all been killed with black powder propelled RBs. You simply avoid shooting at large bones, unless you are shooting a hardened RB.

Hunting with a single shot firearm has always been, and will always be, an event that focuses on the ACCURATE PLACEMENT of your RB( or bullet), Rather than just blasting away. If you don't have the personal Discipline to do this kind of shooting, you need to consider using a modern repeating rifle for your hunting. In your case, where you worry about being attacked by unprovoked bears, I suggest carrying a repeating shotgun loaded with heavy slugs.

 

[R.M.]

I'd like to be able to see a target at 250 yards. My old eyes just wouldn't be able to do it with iron sights.