Converted Percussion Hatfield to Flint - issues

[RonRC]

I put an L&R flint lock in my Hatfield rifle that originally came to me in percussion form. It is the flint lock that is made specifically for the Hatfield conversion.
I shot the rifle on Thursday and some problems became apparent. By the third shot, the flash hole liner became clogged, giving me a flash in the pan. I stuck a wire in the flash hole and reamed it out. The rifle fired.
I noticed that the first patch and ball went down the bore very easily. The second required a bit more force to ram down. The third ball and patch was very tight and took significant effort to ram down the barrel.
Next, I used a cleaning patch on the bore and the patch came out dense black.
I repeated the above with 3 more shots and had the same experience.
The Hatfield is a .45 cal. I used 0.440 balls, 0.015 patches and 60 gr of 3F Goex powder. I swabbed the bore to wipe out whatever residual protectant might be there before I started shooting.
Any ideas on what might be happening?
Thanks,
Ron

 

[Black Hand]

Play with your powder/patch/ball and/or change your lube.

 

[M. De Land]

You may want to take a look at a custom breeching article in the current Muzzle Blast Magazine by Fred Stutzenberger.
His is a great idea and I will be adopting it for any of my future muzzle loading builds.
This breech has many advantages over traditional short plug, course thread breeching that give very little flexibility in lock placement.
I just love picking up these "gold nugget" ideas others use that might take years to discover or develop on your own.

 

[RonRC]

Thank you. I will take a look at that Muzzle Blasts issue. I have that issue, but haven't looked at it yet.
Ron

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Any ideas on what might be happening?

Sounds like a normal muzzle loader to me, especially IF you're using a natural grease lube instead of spit. Some greases seem to actually add to the fouling. I seat my round ball firmly, but I don't whang it with the ramrod, and I swab the bore with a damp piece of ticking after every third shot. Mine is a round bottom rifled, Colerain, in .54, with a slow twist, and I use spit at the range. I swab after every third shot to ensure consistent reliability.

I think the Hatfield version that you have was when they were contracting with Pedersoli to put their name on Pedersoli Frontier rifles made to Hatfield specs. It would be a 1:48 twist with a patent breech so..., the fouling would need attention as you mentioned, AND because of the breech it's not uncommon for the breech and touch hole to need pricking.

LD

 

[RonRC]

Thank you, Loyalist Dave. My Hatfield does have the Pedersoli barrel. As for that breech, I think I keep a local smoking shop in business by buying packages of pipe cleaners. Pipe cleaners? Yup. They are great to get at that breech during cleaning.
Ron

 

[M. De Land]

That custom breeching in the new Muzzle Blasts will do away with all the pipe cleaner nonsense.
You can clean it clear to the bottom from the muzzle and the flash hole sets ahead of the bottom of the powder chamber a good 1/4 inch from what I can see. Shooting a dry ball out will never be a problem again as the slightly smaller than bore diameter powder chamber never lets the ball inter.
Made in a lathe like it is keeps every thing centered to the front of the smaller diameter chamber is tapered to the groove diameter of the bore. Easy to clean clear to the bottom of the chamber and the patched ball can never enter below the flash hole.
Also the barrel flat next to the lock can be left full diameter in a small diameter barrel to allow more thread purchase for the flash hole liner.
All the other seven flats can be tapered down to match the barrel taper if present.

Many advantages to this system in percussion or flint persuasion.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Hey Ron, I used up a lot of pipe cleaners when I owned a BRH. :wink:

IF you need to remove the touch hole liner to clean each time, then there is a problem.

Some folks like me have used a .22 pistol brush to keep the patent breech clear of carbon in the Frontier rifle barrel, and some have reported using something as large as a .32 brush. One occasion a fellow had the barrel unbreeched, and opened up the patent recess in the breech plug a bit, then had the breech plug replaced (though I think this was due to drastic problems).

With a .45 I think you have some tighter tolerances than I did with a .50 so you might want to invest in a .22 brush to get into that breech-recess.

LD

 

[RonRC]

Thank you.
The flash hole is so small that my pipe cleaners are difficult to push in it. I do have several .22 brushes that I will try.
Why is it a problem to remove the screw-in flash hole liner to clean the breech area? It is easy enough to unscrew the little flash hole cylinder and expose the breech.
Ron

 

[hanshi]

The worst grease offender I've ever used, Ron, was Crisco. It gunked up the bore to where only one shot was possible. Using Crisco demanded one wipe out the bore after each shot. I use mink oil with no accumulated fouling; of course, my loads are pretty light which keeps the bore clean.

 

[Black Hand]

Thank you.
The flash hole is so small that my pipe cleaners are difficult to push in it. I do have several .22 brushes that I will try.
Why is it a problem to remove the screw-in flash hole liner to clean the breech area? It is easy enough to unscrew the little flash hole cylinder and expose the breech.
Ron

Then it is a little on the small side - many people like 1/16".

Each time you remove the liner, your wear the threads (Fine threads). This could eventually lead to failure where the liner blows out. On many guns, the liner is not removable and when needing replacement, is drilled out or removed with an Easy-out. The liner shouldn't be removed regularly, as it isn't necessary.

 

[kurts]

810 posts and you can't figure out that maybe your flash hole is to small?

 

[mr.flintlock]

Here are a couple of things that may help. I don't know the size of the touch hole in your liner but if it is smaller than a 1/16th inch bit, you may want to drill it out to 1/16th. A good liquid lube should eliminate a ball being hard to load after multiple shots because it has a cleaning action as you load each shot. A good lube can be made by mixing murphy's oil soap, peroxide and alcohol in equal parts. Another thing is that if you are swabbing between shots, you may be pushing black powder residue down to the breech and it may build up to the point that it blocks the touch hole from inside the barrel, preventing the spark from reaching the main powder charge. Not all Hatfields have a patent breech. I converted my original Hatfield .50 from percussion to flint and it does not have a patent breech.

 

[RonRC]

cub45, I did know about the hole enlargement, having done it with another flintlock. However, I wanted to leave the drilling as a last fix and planned to try less drastic solutions before making an irreversible change.
Ron

 

[nwtradegun]

after loading if you use a brass vent pick in the touch hole it should salve the problem.

 

[waksupi]

Use Moose Milk, and your fouling problem should go away.
I hate patent breeches, and refuse to build a gun using one.

 

[Black Hand]

However, I wanted to leave the drilling as a last fix and planned to try less drastic solutions before making an irreversible change.

As you have a liner installed - How is drilling an irreversible change?

 

[azmntman]

My drill has forward AND reverse :idunno:

:rotf: :slap:

 

[RonRC]

It is true that I can always get a new liner. But I put a lot of work into making that liner fit. It was too long and it stuck out enough to interfere with the movement of the cock and frizzen. I ground and sanded it down until the firing mechanism would work freely. I could do that again, but prefer not to unless I have to.
Ron

 

[54ball]

Ron,
It actually sounds like a good day.
Every new flintlock I have owned or built required a work in period. The more I shot it the better it got.
So put about 50 shots through it and see. While you are at it, try adjusting the load.....maybe even some 2ff through it.

Just shot it some more and see.