Cow Elk Load

[user 36911]

Never had the opportunity to hunt elk and at my age I’m not sure I ever will have that chance. But what would be the difference between a cow elk load and a bull elk load?

You could use a bull elk load on a cow but a load for just cows could be a bit lighter. They are a smaller animal than the bulls. Think doe and buck in deer.

If you never hunted for bulls. Your elk load could be lighter. 90gr instead of 110 gr. It's a personal choice. Some will use a heavy load all the time. I won't be hunting for bulls anymore, so I tend to use less powder now. Just to make recoil a bit softer on my old bones. When I was younger I thought heavy recoil was fun. Not anymore.

 

[Ranch 13]

Never had the opportunity to hunt elk and at my age I’m not sure I ever will have that chance. But what would be the difference between a cow elk load and a bull elk load?

Absolutely nothing. This cow elk thing has come mostly from internet experts that may have seen an elk on vacation with their folks in Yellowstone, and gun writers, and other with precious little experience with em... Elk take can take a lot of punishment or not, but once their skinned and hanging on the meat pole dang tuff to tell which is which.
My 54 with a Douglas barrel, likes 535 rb, pillow tick patch and 110 grains of Goex 2f..

 

[longcruise]

Never had the opportunity to hunt elk and at my age I’m not sure I ever will have that chance. But what would be the difference between a cow elk load and a bull elk load?

In.my experience, no discernable difference. Note that my own personal kills do not amount to a huge database. . I've only killed a few elk with an ml but have been there and seen that of more. What I've concluded is that 54 cal and 80 grains is perfectly adequate.

Another observation is that while difference in amount of powder and granulation of powder result in difference in velocity in the same rifle, differences between rifles can make bigger differences. Even patch thickness can make a considerable difference (or bore size with the same patch).

I and my partner (chrony) have proven this.

So, without concern for "tradition" of the forum, I will state that for the most part this discussion and others like it don't result in any real quality information. That includes my own observations above.

 

[Mike in FL]

My .54 GPR it likes 90 grains of 3F BP. Holes touching (or nearly so) from 75 yards with about a 5 inch group at 100 yards. But the ML might be more accurate than my old eyes can see to shoot.

With respect, 5" at 100 yards is not so good shooting from a rest or bench. Maybe half that size group. I'm 76 and not what I once was, but I'd work on shrinking that.

 

[kyron4]

My buddie always used 120FF in his 54 Renegade. It was an Elk Killer for sure.[RB]

Elk killer and shoulder killer.

 

[longcruise]

With respect, 5" at 100 yards is not so good shooting from a rest or bench. Maybe half that size group. I'm 76 and not what I once was, but I'd work on shrinking that.

I think a real world investigation would show that 5" at 100 yards is some fine shooting with traditional ml and RB. It's not unusual to see incredible groups posted. Usually 3 shots (thanks gun rags for the low standard). And, not dissing those groups or those who post them. Why not take pride and show them off?

What would be interesting would be a group effort amongst our members wherein each shoots one 10 shot benched group at 100 yards. Target shooters choice. Wonder how those groups would look? I know mine wouldn't be 5".

 

[beardedhorse]

Having killed many Colorado bull and cow elk in forty years of hunting with a .54 full stock flintlock of my make using 70 grains of 3F, a .015 patch and .530 round ball I find that if I do my job of proper shot selection and placement I don't have to use different loads for either ***. The one shot harvests were from 20 to 100 yards and required no follow up shots. 70 grains may seem puny to others but it works for me.

 

[user 36911]

I think a real world investigation would show that 5" at 100 yards is some fine shooting with traditional ml and RB. It's not unusual to see incredible groups posted. Usually 3 shots (thanks gun rags for the low standard). And, not dissing those groups or those who post them. Why not take pride and show them off?

What would be interesting would be a group effort amongst our members wherein each shoots one 10 shot benched group at 100 yards. Target shooters choice. Wonder how those groups would look? I know mine wouldn't be 5".

I'd prefer to compete with offhand shooting. To simulate hunting. 99% of my hunting shots are taken offhand. Been doing that since 1950. I'm sort of used to it now.

 

[Old Hawkeye]

Never had the opportunity to hunt elk and at my age I’m not sure I ever will have that chance. But what would be the difference between a cow elk load and a bull elk load?

***!

 

[BS]

When I was a youngster, if you had a 12 ga smooth bore that would put 5 shots into a 7" group at 100 yds, you had a true deer killer.

We hunted thick cover and never shot over 75 yds.

The same applies to elk, my advice is to think like a bow hunter.

Now my rifled 12 bore will shoot 3 shots into 1.1/2" at 100 yds.

My 50 and 54 bullet rifles I try to keep under 3"s at 100 yds.

 

[mushka]

A five inch group at a hundred yards means that every shot landed within two and a half inches of the aiming point. On an elk's side that isn't enough to worry about. Let the bench rest shooters worry about group size.

 

[user 36911]

A five inch group at a hundred yards means that every shot landed within two and a half inches of the aiming point. On an elk's side that isn't enough to worry about. Let the bench rest shooters worry about group size.

I agree. A 5" group aimed center lungs is meat in the freezer.

 

[HighUintas]

I agree with longcruise. There's no difference in toughness between bull and cow. Also, heck yes let's start seeing some 10 shot groups and see what size group a person ends up with! It is very ere opening with modern bolt rifles, even letting the barrel cool between shots and all that jazz.

As far as powder charge goes between deer and elk.... I haven't shot an animal with a round ball yet and have just read other's experiences. Here's my thoughts relating what I've read on round ball penetration to modern jacketed projectile performance on elk I've experienced.

I think it depends a bit on your expected shot distance. Higher velocity impact will deform the ball more, earlier in the wound cavity, possibly causing less penetration and maybe no exit. Lower velocity will of course make more of a rainbow trajectory, but you'd be more likely to get deeper penetration and exit wound due to less ball deformation.

An elk's hide is a bit tougher and body deeper than deer. The ball may deform earlier in the wound path for elk due to the tougher skin. I might consider using the same charge for deer as elk if no your load has performed well on deer. What I will do when I hunt elk with my flintlock, is I will use the charge that gives me the best accuracy for the trajectory I feel that I need. Then we'll see what the ball does if it finds an elk!

 

[user 36911]

I've hunted for elk every year since 1955. A bull is tougher to knock down than a cow.

My .02

 

[longcruise]

I'd prefer to compete with offhand shooting. To simulate hunting. 99% of my hunting shots are taken offhand. Been doing that since 1950. I'm sort of used to it now.

Well, I wasn't thinking competition. My idea was more about a comparison of real world expectations of accuracy. It won't ever happen though. Too hard on egos.

I think it depends a bit on your expected shot distance. Higher velocity impact will deform the ball more, earlier in the wound cavity, possibly causing less penetration and maybe no exit. Lower velocity will of course make more of a rainbow trajectory, but you'd be more likely to get deeper penetration and exit wound due to less ball deformation.

I've observed exactly that as regards penetration. Two different hunters both shooting 54 with 80 grains and RB. One hunter shoots a mulie does at 25 yards a high lung shot and the ball stops under the skin. Next day the other hunter shoots a mulie does at 180 yards with the same load. The POI was uncannily identical to the previous deer. The Ball was under the skin also. The difference was one ball flat and the other was round.

 

[roundballman]

Only elk I have killed with ML was a spike bull at about 100 yds. Used a 54 cal Browning mtg rifle with prb and 120 yrs 2f GOEX. Did the job.

 

[user 36911]

My bull elk load used to be Swiss 2F 80gr in a .54

It always did the job.

 

[mikesto44]

So this load kills them deader than the other load....?Dead is dead....

 

[waksupi]

I think the whole question is hilarious, whether intended as a joke or not. Put the ball where it is supposed to go, they die. I know a woman who killed a bull with a .45 flinter, just because she knew where to shoot one. .65 - 75 gr. 3FFF behind a round ball will kill any elk. You must be nearly 90 years old, and you ask this question?

 

[user 36911]

I think the whole question is hilarious, whether intended as a joke or not. Put the ball where it is supposed to go, they die. I know a woman who killed a bull with a .45 flinter, just because she knew where to shoot one. .65 - 75 gr. 3FFF behind a round ball will kill any elk. You must be nearly 90 years old, and you ask this question?

I'm 80 and explained why I asked it. Just curious what other use. I wasn't asking what load to use. Is that hard for you to understand?

Just making conversation.

btw..Your example isn't even legal in my state. Not even close to legal. I wouldn't call it a humane load for elk.