Coyote Capper

[Idaho Ron]

Capper you are wanting info on guns, and I am thinking loads. The others have covered it well and yes Like BB said I have had to upgrade my rifles to match the country I hunt.
A TC hawken or Renegade is a good platform to start with. I have several Renegades and one Hawken. I know that your main question was guns and loads but I am going to go another direction. Sights! Yes sights is the first thing I would look at. I hunt coyotes a lot with a centerfire. All of them have TOP quality sights. For a TC Renegade or Hawken muzzleloader I am going to recommend the Lyman 57 SML peep sight. WHY? The Lyman is a field adjustable sight. SO if the coyote is 75 yards you can set the sight for 75 yards. If it is 125 yards you set it for 125. The point being is no hold over or under. You either guess the yardage or use a range finder. Get the range and set the sight for that range. I know I can get well over 300 yards of adjustment out of my 57 SML’s. That would be a long coyote shot.
Next is the front sight. I use Lyman 17 AML globe sights. They are tough and work great, but the inserts stink. I use Lee shavers inserts. You can choose from fine bead to crosshair and everything in between. If you want to pay a little extra for a fantastic globe sight the Lee Shavers globe has a level. This will keep you from canting your rifle.
Shooting Coyotes is all about accuracy. The sights will allow you to "aim small" and a lot of coyotes are missed because of the hair on top of their backs and on the bellies make them look huge.
Next I would look at loads. Coyotes are not hard to knock down. I know this will be a bit of a shock to some but a 45 PRB will work very well. Also light conical in a 45 would be a fine bullet too. An upgrade of a Green Mountain barrel is in order. If you want a PRB gun order a twist for that. I don’t shoot PRB’s so someone else can offer a rate of twist to work for them.
If you want a 45 conical gun order the 1-28 twist. You can stabilize up to a bullet that is about ¾” long. A lot of bullets fit that length including the Lee improved minie I am using in my Hawken as a Paper Patched bullet.
To end this I am going to say if your plan is a varmint rifle I would go with a rifle that is set up like the one below. I would also use a slow twist barrel and a PRB. I think you would be happy. Ron

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Man! You guys are so helpful. No one liners like most forums.

Thanks Ron. You gave me a lot to think about. I'd like to make one gun for my hunting. Which will be two weeks for Deer and maybe Elk, and the rest of the year Coyote. A gun shop 30 miles away used to have a Renegade for sale that looked brand new. I'll go check to see if they still have it. I guess i'm ok shooting a RH gun left handed if it's a caplock. I remember shouldering that gun and it fit good. What's the twist on the Renegade?

If it's gone I guess i'll go with a Deerstalker in LH, but i'll have to deal with the compromise twist of 1-48.

I'd rather not buy a new TC Hawken. I think it's over priced, and I can't find any deals on it.

 

[August West]

Check out the online gun auction places. You can usually find some decent deals, and MLers can be shipped to your door.

If I were you I would look at the renegade as a platform to build what you want. A 32" slow twist with deep cut rifling and octagon turned to round with sights like Ron described might be my perfect coyote rifle.

BTW I already own that rifle and have killed 3 coyotes with it, it is in 50 and all 3 have been DRT with patched round ball. Chris

 

[BrownBear]

I guess i'm ok shooting a RH gun left handed if it's a caplock.

Yup, you'll be fine. I've got quite a few right handed cappers and they're just fine lefty, so long as there's no cast-off in the stock.

And as a matter of fact you'll be better off putting that Lyman peep on a right hand capper than on a lefty. The sight gets in your way when you're cocking a left handed gun.

I've got a GPR 54 with the Lyman 57 and tried the Lyman globe on the front. Since I'm not a long range shooter I got rid of the globe in favor of a blade, but don't expect me to get rid of the 57, too. It's a goodun. If I was shooting targets or long range rather than deer in dark forests, the globe would still be on the front of the barrel. It's a goodun too, but just didn't fit my needs.

One really nice thing to think about with the 57. You can just leave the base in place and remove the rest of the sight for hunting with open sights. It takes about 30 seconds to drift in a conventional open rear sight (or remove it), and the same for a front. It wouldn't take you 5 minutes to change the sights out completely to "specialize" your gun for coyotes in the off season, then restore it to traditional sights for deer and elk.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

I'm confused why Lyman makes the Deerstalker in a 1-48 twist? It's obviously a hunting gun. They make the GPR Hunter in a 1-32 twist.

 

[BrownBear]

It's a compromise (and a good one, too) that allows very effective use of both RBs and conicals. The faster and slower twists specialize you one way or the other.

Consider this: The original Hawkens were 1:48. Much to the embarrassment of contemporary slow twist pushers! :rotf:

 

[Pete Gaimari]

They made the commitment with the GPR Hunter to shoot conicals.Why not the Deerstalker?

I don't want something that's pretty good at both.

 

[longcruise]

I'm going to suggest a .45 round ball gun. I you happen to have a TC Hawken or Renegade you can get or make or have made a drop in for it. It should have plenty of power out to the ranges that you can hit reliably at. If you have a whole lot of time, a rest and good conditions, you can probably hit out to 150 yards pretty reliably. I like the idea of the .40 and .45 slug guns, but given trajectories and range estimation solutions, probably not better for reliable hits than a .45 round ball.

These CO coyotes don't give ya much time!

 

[cowpoke1955]

Like BrownBear said, the 1 in 48" twist is a compromise that works. Most of the old CVAs, Traditions and standard T/C barrels are 1 in 48. I have a .45 Pedersoli Blue Ridge flinter and a .54 T/C Hawkens percussion with 1 in 48" twist barrels. Both will shoot round balls and Maxi Balls equally well. Even the Lyman Trade Rifle has a 1 in 48" barrel. I also have a couple of .54 GPRs with the 1 in 60" barrels, which I think has a slight edge over the 1 in 48, at 100 yards. If I could only have one rifle and if it had a 1 in 48" twist barrel, I'd be happy :thumbsup:

 

[Pete Gaimari]

I'm trying to get out to 200 yds. I don't think a PRB will do that. So, I want a shallow fast twist to shoot conicals I'm thinking of the Hornaday FPB.

A compromise barrel won't do that. Keep in mind i'm replacing a .223. I know I can't compete with that, but I need to get as close as I can.

I have a GPR for close stuff. I need a specialized long distance coyote gun. My eyes are drifting in the direction of an inxxxx, but i'm trying to fight it off.

 

[BrownBear]

I think for 200 yards, you're on the right course with the fast twist. I haven't tried 1:48's out there, but in our various 50, 54 and 58 cal rifles with 1:48, I can usually find loads that do the 2"-3" dance at 100. Added to potential sighting errors at 200, I'd want something tighter than that I think. And long 45 cal bullets spell flat to me.

In your boots, I'd cuddle up to Idaho Ron's thinking and techniques and gear. He's seen the elephant on long range hunting and shooting. The rest of us are just gum beaters and jaw flappers. Or at least I am! :rotf:

 

[jethro224]

Here's a thought; You say you have a GPR already. Why not just buy a GPH barrel?
It'll drop right in the GPR stock. Then you'll have the best of both worlds. 1:60 for PRB and 1:32 for conicals.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

I thought about it, but i'd like to have both guns with me. I really like shooting coyotes with the GPR, but if I can't call them close enough. I need another gun I can pick up and get them out further.

I'm greedy and I don't like to let one get away.

I hate to say it, but I really think I need to go to a..... err...ahh......inxxxx...... I read I can stretch it out to 250 yds with one of those 150 gr loads.

Or I can just shoot the GPR and aim 30 ft high. :rotf:

 

[Idaho Ron]

My Green Mountain 50 cal renegade will hit milk jugs at 200 yards. With that rifle I have a very good chance at taking a Coyote out to 200 to 250 yards. I have not hunted coyotes YET with my Renegades but I know they will be in trouble under 200 yards if the chance comes up. Here is my Renegades. Ron

 

[Idaho Ron]

I hate to say it, but I really think I need to go to a..... err...ahh......inxxxx...... I read I can stretch it out to 250 yds with one of those 150 gr loads.

Or I can just shoot the GPR and aim 30 ft high. :rotf:

I don't think you understand what I am saying. The Lyman peep is adjustable. You have heard of marine snipers finding the target Ranging it with a range finder, then adjusting the scope to make the one shot kill?
That is what the Lyman 57 SML will do. You don't need an inline, I am not saying that because of this site. I am saying that because these renegades will shoot better than most inlines.
Ron

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Nice Ron. :thumbsup:

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Hopefully I can get the same results with a Deerstalker, because I just bought one. I couldn't find a Renegade. I know I have a slower twist on the Deerstalker, but i'll have to make it work. There's no way I was going to get an inline.

I'll play with loads and sights until I get something that works. I can use it for muzzleloader deer season and also one week of regular deer season. The rest of the time i'll use it for small game/varmints.

My brain hurts from deciding what guns to buy. I'm done now.

 

[BrownBear]

I haven't tried them at long range, but the Lyman Plains bullet is super accurate in my wife's 54 cal Deerstalker. I've heard the same about the 50. With a lubed felt "button" between them and the powder, I've shot groups in a realm with Ron's at 100 yards. Of course, I can't get my wife to stand near when I shoot them, much less put her shoulder behind one! :rotf:

They're very similar to the Hornady Great Plains bullet, but without the hollows. A box of 20 Hornadys would provide a quick and easy way to try a similar conical without the expense and bother of a mold, just for a test.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

I'll mess around with it. I'll try some PRB with light loads for small game. I have one owner who wants me to get rid of some beavers. A .22 will kill them. I imagine a .50 ML will knock them into next week.

 

[BrownBear]

Try 35 grains of 3f, whether real Goex or Pyrodex P. I've never met a Lyman of any sort that didn't think it was a little bit of heaven. We use that in all ours, both 50 and 54, for small game. And it most certainly will knock the snot out of a beaver.