Coyotes

[Brent]

Micanopy, I know you want to be as demeaning as possible, but frankly, you ain't gettin' anywhere.

If you check my dogs' scats today, you will find lots of rabbit hair, deer bones, antelope bones and a whole lot of chicken. None of which they killed.

If you check the fox scat in my front yard from the den that is 30 yds from the door, you will find a ton of deer hair in it. It might have something to do with the dead buck that is another 30 yds further on the neighbor's property.

Looking at scats can be educational, but obviously, you have to be able to add 1+1 and not come up with 3. You aren't there yet.

 

[John Wasmuth]

When you awaken to reality and stop relying on animal planet, disney, and natgeo to explain how real animals act in the real world you will be much better off. Think the way you will, means little to those of us that actually study predators. And I'm done with it.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Micanopy, I know you want to be as demeaning as possible, but frankly, you ain't gettin' anywhere.

If you check my dogs' scats today, you will find lots of rabbit hair, deer bones, antelope bones and a whole lot of chicken. None of which they killed.

If you check the fox scat in my front yard from the den that is 30 yds from the door, you will find a ton of deer hair in it. It might have something to do with the dead buck that is another 30 yds further on the neighbor's property.

Looking at scats can be educational, but obviously, you have to be able to add 1+1 and not come up with 3. You aren't there yet.

Your poor dog sounds hungry. You should feed it.

 

[larry wv]

I don't figure Brent has any Coyote problems if he has an uneaten buck around. Things are different in this county. Fox are plenty big enough to kill a fawn. Larry Wv

 

[Brent]

Micanopy, I know you want to be as demeaning as possible, but frankly, you ain't gettin' anywhere.

If you check my dogs' scats today, you will find lots of rabbit hair, deer bones, antelope bones and a whole lot of chicken. None of which they killed.

If you check the fox scat in my front yard from the den that is 30 yds from the door, you will find a ton of deer hair in it. It might have something to do with the dead buck that is another 30 yds further on the neighbor's property.

Looking at scats can be educational, but obviously, you have to be able to add 1+1 and not come up with 3. You aren't there yet.

Your poor dog sounds hungry. You should feed it.

The three of them eat 7+ lbs of meat every single morning. They aren't starving.

 

[Brent]

When you awaken to reality and stop relying on animal planet, disney, and natgeo to explain how real animals act in the real world you will be much better off. Think the way you will, means little to those of us that actually study predators. And I'm done with it.

Study eh? I'll match you on that any day. I reckon studying in something I do rather a lot. In the real world no less and right outside my door to boot. I imagine I see more foxes every week than you do in a year.

 

[William O.]

When you awaken to reality and stop relying on animal planet, disney, and natgeo to explain how real animals act in the real world you will be much better off. Think the way you will, means little to those of us that actually study predators. And I'm done with it.

Study eh? I'll match you on that any day. I reckon studying in something I do rather a lot. In the real world no less and right outside my door to boot. I imagine I see more foxes every week than you do in a year.

Brent, you're barking up the wrong tree on this one.

 

[Brent]

Maybe, maybe not. I bet not.

 

[Protrucker]

Another thread turned into a pissin' match! :shake:

What is it with this forum lately?

 

[Brent]

Another thread turned into a pissin' match! :shake:

What is it with this forum lately?

There is only room for one, majority opinion. All else is to be shouted down, every time. Welcome to the internet.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Micanopy, I know you want to be as demeaning as possible, but frankly, you ain't gettin' anywhere.

If you check my dogs' scats today, you will find lots of rabbit hair, deer bones, antelope bones and a whole lot of chicken. None of which they killed.

If you check the fox scat in my front yard from the den that is 30 yds from the door, you will find a ton of deer hair in it. It might have something to do with the dead buck that is another 30 yds further on the neighbor's property.

Looking at scats can be educational, but obviously, you have to be able to add 1+1 and not come up with 3. You aren't there yet.

Your poor dog sounds hungry. You should feed it.

The three of them eat 7+ lbs of meat every single morning. They aren't starving.

Humor. You should try it.

The bottom line is coyotes are a problem. If they aren't in your area. Consider yourself lucky.

 

[longcruise]

Like I said before, everything is different in Texas!

In Colorado no intelligent sheep grower leaves his sheep on the range while lambing. They are brought in to lambing pens.

Was just hunting a couple weeks ago in western colorado low country where sheep flocks are wintered. Wish I had taken some pics of the dogs that they use now to hang with the sheep. These are in addition to the standard herding dogs. The locals tell me they are very talented at keeping coyotes off their sheep. Can't remember the name of those dogs! :cursing: Every flock had at least three of them. Large white dogs. Maybe somebody knows the name for them.

I don't think anybody doubts that coyotes kill some of your stock and deer too. I'm sure they do. But I don't agree with your conclusions that every animal eaten by a predator was killed by a predator.

 

[Brent]

Humor. You should try it.

All the time. I'm here after all.

The bottom line is coyotes are a problem. If they aren't in your area. Consider yourself lucky.

Maybe they are, maybe not. coyotes are a lot of things. Some are well in line with the politically correct image of coyotes as predators. Some are pretty much 180degrees out of line with such PC opinion.

But, I'm only taking issue with foxes being a major factor for deer populations.

 

[Brent]

Just surfing up a few comments about coyotes and fawns, this is from the West Virginia DNR website

The last two paragraphs are the most interesting. The TX enclosure study is probably not commonplace since deer are not over their immediate carrying capacity in most areas. The PA study that is mentioned sounds about like what one finds in most studies.


Predator-prey relationships between the white-tailed deer and the coyote have been extensively studied. The coyote is a significant predator of deer fawns. Studies in Texas have shown that the coyote’s diet consists of 70% fawns during June and July. Sheep predation by coyotes is known to drop drastically when fawns are born around the first of June. The synchronous birth of fawns in June allows the numbers of fawns to overwhelm the predators, and although a large number of fawns are taken during the first month of the fawns’ lives, they become relatively secure after about one month. During winter predation again picks up and deer again become the main diet of coyotes. Although the coyote takes healthy adult deer during the winter, winter killed and wounded deer as well as carcasses and offal from hunting season probably make up the bulk of the winter diet.

In areas, such as West Virginia, where deer populations are abundant, coyote predation may benefit deer health by reducing the deer herd and providing more nutrients for the remaining deer. Coyote predation also has the potential to have significant negative effects on deer herds. In some northern states, deer herd densities are relatively low and their habitat consists of vast wild areas with severe winter weather. In Maine, food habitat studies showed that white-tailed deer made up 50-60% of the coyote’s diet, and this predation had the potential to have significant negative effects on the deer herd. Coyote predation in the high mountain areas of West Virginia with lower deer populations and severe winters is likely to have more effect on the deer herd than in areas with higher deer populations.

In Texas, fawn survival in a coyote proof enclosure was significantly higher than outside the enclosure; however, as deer populations in the enclosure exceeded their carrying capacity fawn survival from 6-12 months was greatest outside the enclosure because the fawns were in better physical condition. This demonstrated that coyote predation in a deer population that exceeded the carrying capacity of the habitat could increase survival of older fawns.

In a fawn survival study in Centre County Pennsylvania during 2000-2001, 218 fawns were radioed and followed with telemetry equipment. Of these fawns, predators killed 22 percent, the leading source of mortality. Of the fawns killed by predators, most were killed by coyotes (49%) and bears (43%). Nearly 50% of all mortality occurred during the month of June, with 18 percent and 16 percent in July and August. It was interesting to note that 84 percent of fawn predation occurred on one of two study areas. This probably illustrates the difference in predation rates due to localized coyote populations.

There was some more interesting summarizing with respect to other species as they are affected by coyotes. It was all pretty much in line with what many many others have concluded.


Although coyotes and foxes share a common range throughout much of North America, there appears to be an inverse relationship between the densities of coyotes and that of foxes. High densities of coyotes tend to limit the distribution of fox territories and their numbers. Biologists have noted the decline of foxes following the colonization of coyotes into an area. Foxes apparently avoid core home ranges of coyote to avoid contact with the stronger predator. The territory of the grey fox occupies more interior woodland and apparently encounters are less common than in the more open land territory of the red fox. Most studies have concluded that foxes are not eliminated but become less common when coyotes invade their territory.

Studies in Missouri have concluded that recolonization by coyotes did not affect bobcat populations. However, studies in several western states concluded that coyotes were better competitors than bobcat for limited food supplies, and where food supplies were limited competition from coyotes could lower bobcat populations.

 

[William O.]

Maybe, maybe not. I bet not.

You'll loose that bet; you have no idea of the conditions and environment from which Micanopy has based his observations on.

 

[John Wasmuth]

The dogs are more than likely Great Pyrenees. Lota people around here use them, lota people use llama for the same purpose. Never said that every animal eaten by a predator was killed by a predator, some times they just die just to die. Large numbers are, they are also killed by eagles, hawks, hogs,caracara and a host of other things. However predators kill a whole lota livestock and wildlife here.

 

[Mattole]

Other dog breeds used for herd protection are the Akbash, the Maremma, and the Anatolian Shepherd dog. From what I have heard they do a great job. I have a friend with Maremmas and they are HUGE. Beautiful dogs, friendly to people and deadly to coyotes.

 

[longcruise]

Whatever they were, they were big and protective of the sheep. Tried to keep me from driving past a bunch on the side of the road. They did everything they could to try to push the truck the other way. :haha:

Never said that every animal eaten by a predator was killed by a predator,

No, and that's my point in that examining scat seems to be your main source of info.

 

[jlap380]

Akbash My family has 2 of them They are Turkish Herd Dogs Look like a Giant White Lab With A Curly Tail. Our Male Is 3 years old 140 lbs and stands 6 foot on his hind legs wish I could post a picture of him standing up on his hind legs next to my father in law

 

[John Wasmuth]

Stomach contents as well. People can think they way they wish. I dont care, I only know what I see.