cracked stock on renegade

[ebiggs1]

Although I have not been involved in any side lock warranty repairs recently, I have a firend that had a newer version of a muzzle loader request service. He was refereed to these statements.

From TC...
With respect to such firearm, this warranty supersedes any and all other warranties. ...

In addition, a copy of the bill of sale in the owner’s name, or, where applicable, a copy of ATF Form 4473 indicating date of purchase must be included.

That said TC is a very good company to deal with, do exactly ass they ask and you will most likely be OK. Certainly worth asking.

 

[ebiggs1]

The fix or replacement stock will suck

And you know this, .......how? :hmm:

 

[HellBound]

I have retrofited several T/C rifles myself, I imagine that voids the warranty. I have never bought one new. The double trigger guns I thread the front tang screw [8-32] into the trigger guard. The single triggers I thread both tang screws into the guard assembly. I have had to replace 2 White Mountian stocks because of tang area cracking. I can testify this mod works.

I have a Later model 54 Hawken and 50 White Mountian that have the tang screws from the factory, no problems.

The first ones I did I used a 10-32 but I found the 8-32 fits and looks better.

P.A.

 

[roundball]

The double trigger guns I thread the front tang screw [8-32] into the trigger guard.
I can testify this mod works.
P.A.

It works for sure...I upgraded 7-8 of the older 70's style Hawkens...bought the new tang bolts, and bought the new style trigger plates, transferred all the trigger parts over to them, drilled & tapped the T/Gs...very little cost doing it yourself

 

[necchi]

Wow, that's cool.
When did T/C start selling just the trigger plate for individuals to make the modification?
Can we still get just that part?

What's the best way to determine the angle of the new tang bolt in relation to the trigger guard an thread?

 

[HellBound]

I have always used the existing parts. With an 8-32 you dont need to open up the tang holes. You can determine the angle of entry with a paper template. Cut a triangle with one side at 90 and the other side on the line from tang hole to the front leg of the guard. Use this template to set the drill angle. You must be careful with the depth, tape will do. This method is kind of analog, but with care it works. The hole in the stock can be a bit oversize so that will give you some wiggle room. I would not attempt this without a drill press or making a jig.

Helpful I hope, P.A.

 

[buttonbuck]

I am shooting the 62 next Tuesday. I will see if the crack worsens or not? For some reason maybe because I shot the 2F after 3f but 100g or 2f kicked a bit more than 90 grains of 3f. Just for comparison sake I mention this modern arms analogy but a 20 gauge game load compared to a slug.

 

[roundball]

Wow, that's cool.
When did T/C start selling just the trigger plate for individuals to make the modification?
Can we still get just that part?

I assume so...they cost $11 each several years ago...with all the changes in their ownership and product focus the best bet would be to call them of course.
The original trigger plates have a lump of metal that's used to crimp one end of that piece of wire T/C used for a trigger spring...but it sits right where the hole needs to be for the new tang bolt to pass through into the trigger guard.
The new plates have a redesigned spring located around the pivot pin on the left side of the front trigger, and the front flat of the trigger plate has that lump removed and the bolt hole drilled there.

What's the best way to determine the angle of the new tang bolt in relation to the trigger guard an thread?

I laid the stocks on their sides and stretched a piece of masking tape from the front edge of the tang hole down to the front edge of the new trigger plate bolt hole and used that straight edge as a drill bit guide.

I first used a long, small size drill bit to run a pilot hole so I could make minor corrections with the final larger size bit if I got off line.

I drilled part way down from the tang hole, then drilled part way up from the new trigger plate hole up, with the masking tape angle as a guide, and it actually turned out to pretty easy just using a hand held variable speed drill.

Then mount the trigger guard momentarily, slide the new bolt down through, turn it a few time against the trigger guard to 'mark' it for the hole location, then remove the guard and drill/tap the hole, noting the forward angle that the masking tape shows you.

 

[roundball]

Note:
If you decide to order new style tang bolts and trigger plates, you'll also need to get the new style trigger springs...they don't come with the plates...dirt cheap.

 

[nkbj]

Well I went shooting today and got the load dialed in at 25 yards on the 62 rifled rebore Renegade. 90 of 3 f or 100 of 2 f goex one ragged hole. I may try 95 of 2f next time. I looked at the bolt that attaches the lock and said a few choice words when I saw a hairline crack. I will inspect this more closely with the magnifying glass but the question is this. Does TC still honor their warranty on Renegades since the rifle is no longer in production? I am going to call TC and find out but any one have experience with this. I figure worse case I will get a Pecatonica full stock if it totally fails and ditch the trigger guard.

Recently repaired a Renegade stock (trashy trade that came complete with a lumpy red orange bore) with two cracks that passed diagonally through the tang and lock area starting high on the left side and going down to the right. Looked like somebody left it lay in the road until it got runnoft.
Removed small amounts of wood and drilled a small hold into the crack behind the lock plate area to get better access to the crack. Thoroughly de-oiled the cracks using alcohol and let it dry out. Used very fluid super glue to get all through the crack, as much as could, prying open the crack to apply the glue and then tourniquetting it shut with cord and a stick to cure. Afterwards the lock bolt hole was filled with a piece of plastic tubing and the entire area beneath the tang was epoxied using the "weld" brand stuff. The hook hole in the tang was filled with candle wax by putting masking tale over the hole and filling pouring in the melted wax from the barrel side. The tape was pulled off after cooling and the tang piece greased (I used lanolin because it was sitting there) before mixing the epoxy and pushing the tang piece in. After curing, the tang piece popped right out and the area for the barrel hook was chipped out where the epoxy had intruded into the space behind the tang. The piece of plastic tube came right out on a drill bit.
I put a TC .56 barrel in the stock and fired it a few times to see if the crack reopens. So far it's tight as a drum. The jury is still out but if it holds up the stock will receive further mods.
Been threatening to have a long octagonal to tapered round flinter shotgun barrel and this just might be the stock to carve on. Already have the water buffalo horn to build the fore end and butt plate spacer. Still need a single trigger set rather than the double. And I'm wondering if the horn would hold up as a carved trigger guard.
Any how, that's how I've done one crack repair and if there's any thoughts there of benefit then good luck and hope it works.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Glad it worked for you. But, I'm dubious CA is the right glue for that kind of job. It is brittle and has great strength for certain uses but can break easily under other stresses. I still feel a good wood glue like TiteBond II (not TB III) is best.

 

[nkbj]

Yeah, we'll see. The jury is out pending high recoil tests. I took the belt and suspenders approach so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I may put a vertical pin through the stock under the tang finger that would intersect the crack at about 45 degrees.

 

[roundball]

I may put a vertical pin through the stock under the tang finger that would intersect the crack at about 45 degrees.

I bought an early 70's Hawken at an estate sale to get the gorgeous stock and longer LOP that were common back then, to upgrade a plain jane stock I had.
Couple years later that chronic crack appeared...sent it to the Dennis Sanita who was the Service Manager at the time...Dennis called me back to be sure I wanted to swap stocks because they had none as pretty as that one, and all had shorter LOPs.
He convinced me I could fix it...to 'pin' it and add the wrist strengthening lock bolt, and returned it to me.

I made the lock bolt upgrade, then took a 1/8" drill bit...drilled straight down on the left side of the tang wood through the crack.
Marked the bit flush, removed it, cut off the shank end at the mark, dipped it in epoxy and tapped it back down in.
Used that Hawken for several more years without a problem.

 

[buttonbuck]

When I talked with the TC service person he said go ahead and try to use some steel wool to buff out the area and see if it is indeed a crack. The grain on this stock is not awesome but has character The funny thing the gun came as a 56 smoothbore with some pitting but it came drilled and tapped on the tang for a peep sight. I figured it was a sign that the gun wanted to be rifled. Did the SB 56 cal guns come with the tapped tang. A hawken I picked up on a trade has that as well. I may put a peep sight on her instead of on a 62, it would make more sense. I am stoked about shooting on Tuesday. I will hopefully remember to bring a camera.

 

[roundball]

The funny thing the gun came as a 56 smoothbore with some pitting but it came drilled and tapped on the tang for a peep sight.
Did the SB 56 cal guns come with the tapped tang. A hawken I picked up on a trade has that as well. I may put a peep sight on her instead of on a 62, it would make more sense.

The tangs on T/C's early side locks were pre-drilled with that middle hole to mount a peep sight, which were generally popular with hunters back during the previous decades with a lot of CF rifles.
In later years, T/C the center tang hole as peep sight popularity trailed off as scopes were becoming all the rage.

The .56 S/B was from a time frame where 3 hole peeps were still being used so it may well have come with it...on the other hand, the interchangeability of barrels on T/C sidelocks always makes it difficult to know if a used stock & barrel are the original mated set.

 

[fahopity]

I have always used the existing parts. With an 8-32 you dont need to open up the tang holes.

Hi, are you saying this modification can be made without buying a new trigger plate and new trigger spring? I hope so as I just got off the phone with TC and they told me that they have some parts left for warrenty work but don't sell parts to do this. If anyone knows of another source for parts that would be great info also.
Does the replacement tang bolt thread into the trigger plate and the trigger guard or just one or the other. Any pictures of this modification?
Thanks in advance, Darrell

 

[necchi]

Here's a photo I happen to have to show another issue, but it's the new double trigger plate and the typical TG.
The bolt threads only into the TG,, and the TG actualy fit's under that shelf of the trigger plate when mounted properly.
Sorry it doesn't show the trigger spring, it's currently mounted in a stock, maybe I can take it out later and get a pic.

Renegades/Big Boar that have a single trigger have the trigger and Guard as one unit,,
I do not have an old style trigger here in the house, but I do remember that goofy wire spring, :idunno:

 

[fahopity]

Thank you. A picture really is worth a 1000 words.
This helps alot.
Darrell

 

[roundball]

Hi, are you saying this modification can be made without buying a new trigger plate and new trigger spring? I hope so as I just got off the phone with TC and they told me that they have some parts left for warrenty work but don't sell parts to do this. If anyone knows of another source for parts that would be great info also.

After having converted some and thinking back on it, the biggest dependency on a TC part for conversion would be the new style trigger spring.

Getting rid of the old spring's crimp area on the top front of the trigger plate should be fairly straight forward, just grinding it down flat on a bench grinder.
Then the 1/4" hole could be drilled through the trigger plate where that raised bump of crimp metal was previously located.

And a 1/4" bolt could be found to work somewhere.

But I think the little new style trigger spring would be the sticky point to the whole conversion...pretty strong dependency on that.

 

[roundball]

Ed Cain & Son, Scott...used to be a big GM and TC dealer / warranty repair center.

New Style T/C DST Trigger Assembly at Cains Outdoor...notice the flat front of the trigger plate...the old spring crimp block is gone and a 1/4" hole is where it used to be. http://www.cainsoutdoor.com/shop/item.asp?item=20378

In addition to the complete new style trigger assembly, he also has the new tang bolts listed on his website for $1.85, about like I remembered them to be.

He may have some of the new style trigger plates and trigger springs and just didn't bother listing them...might have some...wouldn't hurt to give him a call