Cutting powder to make it weaker

[Frontier's]

Here in the first paragraph. https://goingbang.com/product/full-bandolier-with-oil-bottle/ Also, balls analyzed from an Ottoman battlefield in southeastern Europe showed deformation consistent with modest or slightly slow velocities by modern muzzleloading standards... there was a study, but I can't find it anymore.

I guess theoretically that would help, but considering that the difference in performance between 2F and 3F is pretty marginal, I don't know if going to 1F will matter much?

If cutting blackpowder with an inert is unsafe then I'll just shelve the whole idea. It's not worth spending $300 on a minor improvement to a $600 gun.

Marginal? Not sure I'd you ever shot over a chronograph but the difference between 2f and 3f is far from marginal.

 

[Nobade]

I have done what you are describing by mixing grits or cornmeal with my powder. It works fine, probably the easiest way you could achieve what you want.

 

[Packrat]

I don't IDK how a Squib load will damage the revolver, messy to clean though

 

[Sir Boniface Harrison]

'Old gunpowder was not as powerful as it is today'...

I'm not sure thats strictly true. Brett Gibbons (The Paper Cartridges guy) says that gunpowder from the 19th century, particularly British gunpowder, was superior to most of the stuff you can get today, apart from maybe Swiss. What period are you re enacting, and what is your gun?

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I'm not sure thats strictly true. Brett Gibbons (The Paper Cartridges guy) says that gunpowder from the 19th century, particularly British gunpowder, was superior to most of the stuff you can get today, apart from maybe Swiss. What period are you re enacting, and what is your gun?

The "19th Century" spans of course, 100 years. In the 18th century, and into the first quarter of the 19th century, British and American gun powder was NOT as powerful as we get today, even if we are using GOEX. The difference being the procedures to make the powder, plus sometimes the charcoal source. Powder was made by several different makers at the time as were the guns. Once these problems were corrected, the Brits did get a respectable powder.

LD

 

[Jappo]

I have done what you are describing by mixing grits or cornmeal with my powder. It works fine, probably the easiest way you could achieve what you want.

I thought about this. 50-50 ? Or what percentage of each have you used. I'm guessing cream of wheat would also work. I have plenty of that outdated.

 

[smoothshooter]

I do reenactment shooting and want to have the look/feel of a full powder charge without actually creating so much noise and stress in my gun. Old gunpowder was not as powerful as it is today, and 1600s powder charges were made to hold more than 200 grains. On top of that, my gun has a space between the breech face and the touch hole, so if I load less than 40 grains at the shooting range then the ball obstructs the touch hole and the gun can misfire. Given that, is there some type of low energy combustible powder that I can mix with blackpowder to make it weaker? (Hopefully without creating any horrible kind of residue/fouling)

You have some serious gun defects issues if the vent hole is that far forward of the breech plug face.
You need a new gun.

 

[Sparkytfl]

We're not really allowed to go into detail here, but another option would be to make your own. Surprisingly easy and cheap to make low grade 1f.

If using the "rub the ball of dampened powder dough through a screen" method, mine ended up so fluffy that I had to almost double it if measuring by volume.

 

[beardedhorse]

Some good remedies suggested to correct touch hole position. I question if Pyrodex as a main charge in a flintlock, even if old will go off. If you have to separately pour a filler on top of black powder to reduce propellent volume, will it look convincing in a re enactment? If you can afford it, remove barrel, mill new hole for a vent liner in proper position, tap threads and install liner. The new hole will have to drill out old touch hole. Out of luck if an existing vent liner won't allow repositioning a new one. Glueing or silver soldering or brazing a solid round slug to extend face of breechplug may still leave a gap where fouling enters thread. Accumulated fouling can get so hot you risk a cook off. Replacing breechplug with longer male thread and deeper female thread in barrel best solution. Good luck. Let us know how you solve your problem.

 

[jdw276]

If using the "rub the ball of dampened powder dough through a screen" method, mine ended up so fluffy that I had to almost double it if measuring by volume.

Yep, some here....

 

[Jappo]

How about some sort of wadding to bring the powder charge up closer to the flash hole. You can always pull it back out. Or clean it out if it burns up. That way you can shoot light loads till you can get the distance from breech to hole took care of.

 

[Indy Durtdigger]

If using the "rub the ball of dampened powder dough through a screen" method, mine ended up so fluffy that I had to almost double it if measuring by volume.

Yup. That'll get the guy exactly what he wants and cheap to boot.

 

[Janissary]

There is your answer! No muss no fuss and the gun will also have a ugly issue corrected.
Larry

Well, for your information, it's a lot of muss and fuss. I don't think there's any muzzleloader gunsmiths in my city and regardless we are presumably looking at $300+ for skilled labor and parts in the USA. Not to mention the fact that my gun isn't really well designed to be taken apart and rebuilt like this, since it's one of the Indian repros, I've never disassembled it and not sure if I ever want to.

What caliber gun are you shooting? Is it an old antique or a modern reproduction?

Repro .57

Marginal? Not sure I'd you ever shot over a chronograph but the difference between 2f and 3f is far from marginal.

OK, thanks for the info. I admit I don't have a chrono but I was going from what commentators on this forum said in a previous thread, that there was little noticeable difference between 2f and 3f.

I have done what you are describing by mixing grits or cornmeal with my powder. It works fine, probably the easiest way you could achieve what you want.

Thank you!

I'm not sure thats strictly true. Brett Gibbons (The Paper Cartridges guy) says that gunpowder from the 19th century, particularly British gunpowder, was superior to most of the stuff you can get today, apart from maybe Swiss. What period are you re enacting, and what is your gun?

1500s matchlock

You have some serious gun defects issues if the vent hole is that far forward of the breech plug face.
You need a new gun.

According to the comments on this subject I read from other users on this forum, such a space is not a serious problem. I really do welcome your opinion if you can elaborate.

 

[Mad L]

I do reenactment shooting and want to have the look/feel of a full powder charge without actually creating so much noise and stress in my gun. Old gunpowder was not as powerful as it is today, and 1600s powder charges were made to hold more than 200 grains. On top of that, my gun has a space between the breech face and the touch hole, so if I load less than 40 grains at the shooting range then the ball obstructs the touch hole and the gun can misfire. Given that, is there some type of low energy combustible powder that I can mix with blackpowder to make it weaker? (Hopefully without creating any horrible kind of residue/fouling)

Truly I am failing to fully understand here;
You want the "look and feel of authenticity" for "reenacting" but you have a "space between the breech face and touch hole that let's the BALL block the touch hole" with a charge less then 40g "at the Range"?

Does your reenactment group have a Safty Officer?

Are you firing blanks or live ball??

Most Safty Officers I know would not allow you to fire a faulty firearm...just saying, even for blanks.

You say that due to the faulty fitting of your firearm you are worried about using a full load of ammunition and causing "stress" to your faulty firearm....with a BALL??

I think you mentioned a Bandolier with pre measured charges, if I read correctly?
I assume wooden vessels? How would anyone know how much powder is in each one? Powder weighs nothing, a vessel filled with 40gr or 80gr would not 'feel' any different to the wearer...

Think about it; it may be a 'muzzleloader' but it is a Firearm. Do you value your fingers, your hands, your eyes, your face?

Might we ask what type of 'gun' you have? Handgun or rifle?
Can you post a photo of this 'space' that prevents you from loading a light load?

And; is this 'gun' being used for Blank shot reenacting or Live fire at a shooting 'range'?

With the information given my response would be: Do Not fire without first reparing it properly, if possible.

Firearms: Safty First, Always.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

Well, for your information, it's a lot of muss and fuss. I don't think there's any muzzleloader gunsmiths in my city and regardless we are presumably looking at $300+ for skilled labor and parts in the USA. Not to mention the fact that my gun isn't really well designed to be taken apart and rebuilt like this, since it's one of the Indian repros, I've never disassembled it and not sure if I ever want to.

This reply is based on a flat breech plug! No patent breech!


Janissary,
I disagree with $300 or even close to correct the gun's issue. You never said the breech was not safe, so I assume the only issue is the poor location of the TH. Here is what I would do: Make a wafer out of copper a few thousands smaller diameter than the bore and thickness to bring the breech face to the TH side. All one needs for that is a hack saw, vice and a file. Purchase a steel rod a little longer than the barrel and undersised of the bore. (want large diameter as possible, but still slide into the bore,OR make the tip shown for smaller rod) The steel rod needs to be modified by a Dremel, or a drill motor in order to dish out the center of the rod, leaving about 3/32" ridge 360 deg. Place a hardwood block on a cement floor and rest the breech (not the tang on the wood. Smack it two good blows with a 2 lb hammer. It won't come out if done correctly.
Most of the guys on here who make their own guns, can do that, no sweat.
Do what you want, powder or whatever, but it really is no big deal. Copper is soft and melts at 1984 deg F
Larry

Larry

 

[Trigger]

I do reenactment shooting and want to have the look/feel of a full powder charge without actually creating so much noise and stress in my gun. Old gunpowder was not as powerful as it is today, and 1600s powder charges were made to hold more than 200 grains. On top of that, my gun has a space between the breech face and the touch hole, so if I load less than 40 grains at the shooting range then the ball obstructs the touch hole and the gun can misfire. Given that, is there some type of low energy combustible powder that I can mix with blackpowder to make it weaker? (Hopefully without creating any horrible kind of residue/fouling)

Do you have a gun permit?Have you taken a gun safety class?Have you shot a gun before?

this is fun. I don't have a clue what there trying to do.

40 grains of powder to much?
That's going to be to loud.

Fake bullets.
Weak powder
Less fouling non corrosive even.

 

[Trigger]

I've been on this reenacting forum a little while.

You might be better to post your gun picture of what's wrong first. Just in case. What repro? What make model do you have? People know guns here. Enough so to spot there might be a problem if you can't load less than 40 grains and all.

You might want to see what everyone else is doing for practice or whatever is going on.

I havnt heard any of this for reenactment around here. I dont reenact so I don't get what your doing At all.

 

[Janissary]

Janissary,
I disagree with $300 or even close to correct the gun's issue. You never said the breech was not safe, so I assume the only issue is the poor location of the TH. Here is what I would do: Make a wafer out of copper a few thousands smaller diameter than the bore and thickness to bring the breech face to the TH side. All one needs for that is a hack saw, vice and a file. Purchase a steel rod a little longer than the barrel and undersised of the bore. (want large diameter as possible, but still slide into the bore,OR make the tip shown for smaller rod) The steel rod needs to be modified by a Dremel, or a drill motor in order to dish out the center of the rod, leaving about 3/32" ridge 360 deg. Place a hardwood block on a cement floor and rest the breech (not the tang on the wood. Smack it two good blows with a 2 lb hammer. It won't come out if done correctly.
Most of the guys on here who make their own guns, can do that, no sweat.
Do what you want, powder or whatever, but it really is no big deal. Copper is soft and melts at 1984 deg F
Larry

Larry,

Thank you for the guide I really appreciate it.

In my case it's more complicated since there's unfortunately a patent breech down there (don't know its dimensions), and furthermore, there is a slight choke near the muzzle.

Last year I did ask the leader of our reenactment group if there was something I could do to fill up the chamber of the patent breech, since it's unnecessary volume what with my vent hole being entirely forward of the breech face, making it harder to clean. He told me, anything you put in there is a potential projectile if it comes loose. For reenactment with audiences, even though we never shoot in the direction of other people, the idea of a potential projectile in there could get me in trouble. We're not allowed to use wadding or anything but powder. I believe you when you say that if done correctly it won't come loose, but I'm not comfortable going against what the leader told me.

Still I am glad to be informed about this little trick.

Truly I am failing to fully understand here;
You want the "look and feel of authenticity" for "reenacting" but you have a "space between the breech face and touch hole that let's the BALL block the touch hole" with a charge less then 40g "at the Range"?

Does your reenactment group have a Safty Officer?

Are you firing blanks or live ball??

Most Safty Officers I know would not allow you to fire a faulty firearm...just saying, even for blanks.

You say that due to the faulty fitting of your firearm you are worried about using a full load of ammunition and causing "stress" to your faulty firearm....with a BALL??

I think you mentioned a Bandolier with pre measured charges, if I read correctly?
I assume wooden vessels? How would anyone know how much powder is in each one? Powder weighs nothing, a vessel filled with 40gr or 80gr would not 'feel' any different to the wearer...

Think about it; it may be a 'muzzleloader' but it is a Firearm. Do you value your fingers, your hands, your eyes, your face?

Might we ask what type of 'gun' you have? Handgun or rifle?
Can you post a photo of this 'space' that prevents you from loading a light load?

And; is this 'gun' being used for Blank shot reenacting or Live fire at a shooting 'range'?

With the information given my response would be: Do Not fire without first reparing it properly, if possible.

Firearms: Safty First, Always.

Do you have a gun permit?Have you taken a gun safety class?Have you shot a gun before?

this is fun. I don't have a clue what there trying to do.

40 grains of powder to much?
That's going to be to loud.

Fake bullets.
Weak powder
Less fouling non corrosive even.

I've been on this reenacting forum a little while.

You might be better to post your gun picture of what's wrong first. Just in case. What repro? What make model do you have? People know guns here. Enough so to spot there might be a problem if you can't load less than 40 grains and all.

You might want to see what everyone else is doing for practice or whatever is going on.

I havnt heard any of this for reenactment around here. I dont reenact so I don't get what your doing At all.

It's nice that you two care about my safety. Have a good day.

 

[Trigger]

Larry,

Thank you for the guide I really appreciate it.

In my case it's more complicated since there's unfortunately a patent breech down there (don't know its dimensions), and furthermore, there is a slight choke near the muzzle.

Last year I did ask the leader of our reenactment group if there was something I could do to fill up the chamber of the patent breech, since it's unnecessary volume what with my vent hole being entirely forward of the breech face, making it harder to clean. He told me, anything you put in there is a potential projectile if it comes loose. For reenactment with audiences, even though we never shoot in the direction of other people, the idea of a potential projectile in there could get me in trouble. We're not allowed to use wadding or anything but powder. I believe you when you say that if done correctly it won't come loose, but I'm not comfortable going against what the leader told me.

Still I am glad to be informed about this little trick.







It's nice that you two care about my safety. Have a good day.

Sounds like. Just buy a new gun!

Just powder in the gun shouldn't be that loud. How much a charge of powder do they shoot off?

There's allot with safety. That's why this powder topic here is even against the rules here I think.

 

[Banjoman]

I’m really cornfused now. Does the gun have a traditional flat faced breech or a chambered breech?

How can a blank load put stress on a gun?