CVA .54 Big Bore Accuracy Problems

[deand]

I have recently completed a kit for CVA .54 from the 80's.

Looks good but shoots horrible. Barrel seems clean.

Due to the 1:66 twist I'm shooting patch and ball. At 50 I can't keep it within a 1' group. :cursing: I'm going back out today starting with a lighter load 80 grains and moving closer to see if I can group there. I'll start at 25 yards. (ideas?)

As I would like to hunt deer this year with the rifle I don't want to get too light a powder charge. Do you think 80 is enough with a .54? All my shots will be kept to under 50 yards.

Thanks all.

Dean

 

[SCATTERSHOT]

a 1" group is great accuracy. what size groups are you getting, exactly?

 

[Swampman]

I think 60 grains of 3F would be perfect. I think 2" at 50 yards would be excellent for the gun you're shooting.

 

[bbassi]

I have recently completed a kit for CVA .54 from the 80's.

Looks good but shoots horrible. Barrel seems clean.

Due to the 1:66 twist I'm shooting patch and ball. At 50 I can't keep it within a 1' group. :cursing: I'm going back out today starting with a lighter load 80 grains and moving closer to see if I can group there. I'll start at 25 yards. (ideas?)

As I would like to hunt deer this year with the rifle I don't want to get too light a powder charge. Do you think 80 is enough with a .54? All my shots will be kept to under 50 yards.

Thanks all.

Dean

just for clarification, is that a 1 FOOT group at 50? I have a 54 and shoot 75-80 grs behind a 425 buffalo bullet, and I have pole-axed several deer at around 100 paces, so for my 2 cents I'd say it was enough powder. :grin:

 

[roundball]

a 1" group is great accuracy. what size groups are you getting, exactly?

(one foot group)

 

[dwarvenchef]

1 foot group needs some serious contemplation. Inspecting patches, muzzle, burn rate (eradic), sight seating, trigger slop, and many more. Some tubes are just cut wrong, I have a 36 with a bore not centered in the tube... not shot it for group yet...

 

[deand]

Sorry all....yeah that was ONE FOOT grouping.

Here's what I've done. I dropped to 80 grains of powder, .530 ball, .015 prelubed patch, No. 11 cap. My grouping is now abou 3" at 50 yards.

Not great, but better. I will be shooting again tomorrow.

This weapon has a VERY heavy trigger. I have not polished it yet, but am probably going to this afternoon. Any hints/tips on lightening up the trigger? I can't get the "set" trigger to work at all on it.

Dean

 

[deand]

Also, I'm shooting FF in her. Do you think that be effecting the accuracy that much? Do most of you shoot FFF in .54's?

Thanks.

Dean

 

[Swampman]

I'd reduce the charge even further. You don't need that much powder to kill a deer.

 

[deand]

Swampman,

Thanks for the info...could I drop to 60 or 70 and be within the "safe zone" for killing Ft/Pds out to 50 yards?

Dean

 

[noahmercy]

A few things, Deand:

Are you shooting real black powder or a sub? My friend's CVA doesn't group nearly as well with Pyrodex or 777 as it does with Goex or Kik. His also groups much better with lighter loads than full-house ones. 80-90 grains sounds spot on and will take any deer on the planet with proper shot placement.

What diameter ball and what thickness patch are you using? His does better with a .010"-under-bore-diameter ball (.530") and a thick (.018"-.020") patch. If you're already using this combo, you might try a .005" bigger ball (.535") and a thinner patch (if the thicker patches are too hard to load...otherwise stick with the thicker ones).

What are you using for patch lube? It can make a tremendous difference, believe it or not. I've seen outstanding results from Hoppes No. 9 Plus in a wide variety of guns and I've heard excellent things about a couple of the homemade lubes from the forum here (moose milk/snot and cat whiz).

What are you cleaning with? If you use the wrong product, the resultant residue can be almost impossible to remove and can tear up patches during loading, thereby hurting accuracy.

Are you shooting off a bench? If so, are you resting the barrel or the stock on the front bag? Groups can quadrupel in size if you apply excessive upward pressure on the barrel.


How many shots have gone down the bore? My buddy's CVA didn't shoot for beans until he'd fired over 200 shots. Then it was like magic; the groups shrank every time he had the gun out for the next couple months and ended up being more than acceptably accurate...about inch and a half groups at 70 yards.

If you're not shooting off a rest, you should, at least for load development. And when you do, try resting the place on the stock where your off-hand will end up when shooting in the field on the bag and only let the weight of the gun keep it there...don't bear down. After you've found an accurate load, shoot it offhand and make any needed sight adjustments...sometimes a gun will shoot to a different point off bags.

And if the muzzle crown is damaged, a gunsmith won't charge much to recrown it, and if you want, you can do it yourself. (Brownell's sells laps and cutters). It's a very easy and quick job.

Don't get discouraged, pard. Load development is half the fun of muzzleloading. Just look forward to that moment when you'll hit on the right combination and your groups will shrink down to bragging size.

:thumbsup:

 

[roundball]

Also, I'm shooting FF in her. Do you think that be effecting the accuracy that much? Do most of you shoot FFF in .54's?
Thanks.
Dean

Dean, with everything else you've commented on, I wouldn't worry about 2F vs. 3F...sounds like you just need to keep the focus on the basics, get both of your triggers operating like you want, settle into your loading/wiping/cleaning routines, etc.

Also, a 60grn powder charge in a .54cal is a very light plinking[url] charge...in[/url] fact it's the entry level powder charge on most manufacturer's load data charts, which typically list a range of 60-120grn charges for the .54cal.

If you can discipline yourself to limiting your shots to just the very close ones, 60grns would kill a deer with proper shot placement...if you can't do that, and may have opportunities in the 40-100yd range, then you need to go ahead and use proven big game powder charges in the 90-120grn range for the .54cal.

This way you'll ensure a clean kill, and not have a wounded deer running off 500yds that you won't find, which then dies a slow death...happens often to people who use light plinking charges when hunting big game.
:thumbsup:

 

[deand]

Thanks, Noah. All great insight. I'm shooting Pyrodex in her right now and shooting off a rest. I think that I have been keeping the stock on the bag, but will check that tomorrow.

For cleaning I haven't been using a solvent...don't shoot me on this...I found a "recipe" for a solvent using linseed oil and other ingredients. Tried that for a while, now have reverted to "Hot soapy water" and hot water rinse followed by Bore Butter. Good? Bad?

Thanks again...I'm not getting discouraged. You guys have already help this tinhorn out a bunch!

Dean

 

[roundball]

"..."Hot soapy water" and hot water rinse followed by Bore Butter. Good? Bad?

Excellent...that's been my approach with several muzzleloaders for 15+ years...

 

[deand]

Roundball,

Thanks for the insight on charges. I know growing up that I used 90 grains in my .50 Hawken and limited my shots.

Switching to the .54 I wasn't sure of powder charge and where I should be shooting at (pun intended). Due to eye problems I keep all my shots to 50 yards or closer. I just can't see well past that and wouldn't chance wounding a deer from my own impatience.

I need to have some "knock down" power because of the area I hunt. It's "slightly" developed. We all have 10 acre parcels and I don't really want the deer running into someone's yard to expire.

Thanks again, Guys.

Dean

 

[Swampman]

"Also, a 60grn powder charge in a .54cal is a very light plinking[url] charge...in[/url] fact it's the entry level powder charge"

It's about all our forefathers used. People use way more powder than they need, and their accuracy suffers. 3F will be a lot better for you than 2F.

 

[Zonie]

Glad to hear you gave up on the Linseed oil. I can't think of a worse choice.

All guns with double set triggers are hard to shoot with the trigger "unset".
The tumber and sear can be polished and that will help a little, but the main problem is just the design of the trigger (which is really meant to be used in the set condition).

As for setting the trigger, if there is a screw located between the triggers, unscrew it at least 4 turns. (If it falls out, don't worry, just don't loose the screw).
After backing the screw out, pull the rear trigger as hard as you can.
Somewhere in this pulling, you should hear a small click as the front trigger latches onto the rear trigger blade.
After the front trigger engages the rear trigger blade, just a touch on the front trigger should release the rear trigger blade.
Doing this by the way, will not hurt the trigger at all but make sure the hammer is either at full cock (it will fall) or it is all the way down.
Do not "click" the set trigger with the hammer in the half cock position. (It can break the locks sear).
I'm not sure why, but some manufactures put some gawd awful heavy springs on the rear trigger. My Lyman GPR hurts my finger to set the rear trigger to the cocked position.

If you find you can set the rear trigger and you don't want the front trigger to be any lighter (most of them are too light anyway, especially for hunting) just leave the screw where it is (that includes if it fell out).
Screwing it in only lightens the release pressure of the front trigger).

 

[charcloth]

Hello Deand,

I've always used the hot soapy water and hot rinse followed by oil. I used bore butter for a while, but I found that over time the product does not in fact "season the bore" as it claims to. In a couple of instances, where long term storage was a factor, I have had corrosion/rust appear while supposedly protected by bore butter. I have been using break free clp for twenty years with no complaints. As for a load I shoot a .530 ball, a ten thousandths patch and 70 gr FFF whether I am deer hunting or shooting paper. In my gun this load has been very good. Roundball suggested using a wonderwad behind a .530 prb but I have not ried it yet.

Charcloth.

 

[deand]

Swampman, Zonie and Charcloth ~

Thank you for this information. You all have given me a lot to chew on.

Still having fits with the trigger setup. Mine does not have a screw between the triggers (there is a hole but no screw) but there is a screw behind the set trigger which engages the spring. I have worked it in and out and tried each way. The triggers seem to work fine until they are in the rifle. Checked for anything hitting (stock or sliver) and found nothing. Just doesn't seem to want to go into "set" UNLESS I pull the hammer back a tad more. Then I get a very loud "click" and I can set the trigger. Concerns me to use this while hunting? Very loud.

Again...thank you all for your insight.

Dean

 

[deand]

I did, however, get the front trigger pull back to a somewhat manageable range. It's not too far off of where I'd want it to be for a hunting situation.

Dean