CVA Mountain Rifle

[Swampman]

the original comment was that a $4000.00 gun would NOT shoot as well as a $150.00 gun

No it wasn't.

 

[ebiggs1]

And Wattsy,
I have no experience with a Traditions or a CVA, as I have never shot either. I have only held them a couple of times. However I am extensively familiar with Thompson Center muzzle loaders and am comfortable commenting on them.
I think the division some high dollar custom gun owners have is a little resentfulness.
I saw it in the SCCA races we used to do at Hallett racetrack. The Porsche and Audis’ owners got pretty rude to us Mustang owners if we beat them. There was just no way a Mustang could beat a Porsche, but we did.
Now here I come with a $300 dollar gun and shoot just as well as the $4000 dollar gun next to me. And it even kills deer! Just an observation from the outside looking in.

 

[hanshi]

For years, I killed deer regularly with a $120 Traditions percussion. Cheap may mean a gun is built using plastic and other shortcuts and is not remotely authentic; but it doesn't necessarily follow that it won't shoot well and give the owner many years of good service.

 

[Little Wattsy]

the original comment was that a $4000.00 gun would NOT shoot as well as a $150.00 gun

No it wasn't.

And I quote "I've owned several $3000.00-$4000.00 muzzleloaders built by the best in the country. None of the shot as well as my $150.00 T/C Hawken."

Just a page back easy enough to find.....

 

[Swampman]

Well at least you finally quoted what I said. That's a start toward telling the truth.

There's no need to misrepresent things.

 

[smo]

IMHO for what it's worth. I own a couple of T/C's and a CVA in .50 cal. I can't say much for the CVA as I've only shot it about a 1/2 dozen times but i did get a good group on the last three shots. On the other hand I've shot the T/C's a bunch and i know what they will do. Any rifle or smoothbore will only shoot as good as the person behind the trigger. That being said I've had guys out shoot me with my own guns. :shake: However the way i look at it one ragged hole is one ragged hole no matter what it comes from,be it a $150.00 T/C which is very hard to find (in good shape ) or a $3,000.00 to $4,000.00 flintlock. But if you hold the two side by side and shoulder them you can see the difference. Without doubt the high dollar flinter is a better made rifle, has better balance than the production made guns and looks ten times better. And in the proper hands "should" out shoot any production made gun. But from what I've seen the big difference is on out past 50 yds. I'm talking 1 in 48 twist barrels not R/B barrels on a T/C. At 50 yds + is where the greatest advantage is found. I do love the looks and the feel of those custom made rifles :wink: :bow: :thumbsup: :surrender:

 

[Dave K]

SMO, good post, really. Now, if the right people can read and do so, that will be the tough one to answer. It is sad, but if some can't understand that, I don't care to know their reasons for not being able to.

 

[Fullstock58]

My question was sincere and not meant to be taken maliciously. I am generally curious about what a $4000 or $3000 dollar custom would benefit me. I concede the beauty aspect. Plus I prefer flintlocks and it really looks like they dominate the custom market anyway, maybe not. I have learned to “master” flintlocks, muzzelloading in general since I do shoot several cap locks. This after a fairly bumpy start. I am not a great shot and never will be and have no intention to do competition. So just what will a $4000 dollar custom do for me?

CVA Big Bore Mountain Rifle is a "worthwhile want" Back in the mid 1970's I had a TC Hawken in 50cal, they had not been out for too many years, I never liked that gun, it shot great and worked great, I just never felt any kinship towards it. I then got a CVA Mountain Rifle kit, built it and shot the manure out of it, I shot several deer with that gun. Then I moved to Colorado and felt I needed a "Bigger" Ball, so I built a Great Plains Rifle in 54 caplock, I shot several Muledeer with the GPR, I replaced the barrel with a Green Mountain replacement, that thing could sure shoot a round ball! I did a lot of research for my next roundball gun and I bought a Fullstock Flintlock Hawken kit from Pecatonica River in 58cal, with a Green mountain barrel. I built that kit with loving hands, I must say for what little talents I have it turned out quit well, and proved to be a real fine Elk Rifle. It was my first Flinter and I went through many growing pains learning to shoot it accuratly and get 100% relieable ignition. Why am I telling you this? Because up to this point all my muzzleloaders have been mass produced rifles or kits that I assembled, I didn't know squat about any custom gun, other then what I read about, believe me I drooled buckets full looking at Sam Fadalas Custom modified Lancaster rifle in 54, built by Dennis Mulford, page 153 in the 1979 book by Sam "The complete Black Powder Handbook"
I always told myself one day, I would have a very nice rifle like that. Well one day happened, I moved back east and found myself in a situation were I could get me a nice rifle, what I paid and who made it is not the issue, the issue was up until that time all iowned was somewhat mass produced. I handled many fine Longrifles, Eye Candy, balance, feel, fit and finish were all there, but I never fired one. When my New rifle arrived it took me a while to shoot it! I just hated to soil that rifle! but! I did, let me put it bluntly, I thought I had a handle on what was a good feeling/firing rifle, I had not a clue, that swamped barrel held point like a english setter, the triggers were baby butt smooth, the lock was as slick as a silk pair of underware, the sights were clear/crisp/centered, it shot straight! That wide curverd buttstock was a pure joy! Plus it was a whole bunch of Eye candy as well. Heres were I was really shocked, when I cleaned that rifle after the shoot, it all came apart like a swiss watch, I could not believe how finely that rifle was built. The other shocker was just how easy that Colorain round bottom rifling cleaned, it darn near cleaned itself!

So there you have it I went from mass produced kits, to a custom/mass produced kit and I thought I knew something about muzzleloaders to a custom built gun. I have often said if you can afford one, please do yourself a favor and get a custom gun, it will not kill any more game then a cheaper gun, but it will do it with more class and style.

 

[necchi]

It's all really a class example of Merton's Self Fullfilling Prophecy.

If Mr. Lewis believes his gun will shoot as well or better than another, he will in sublime/subconsious ways create circumstances to validate the point,,it could be,,
fit of the gun
a poor patch or loading technique
a motion of the trigger or wrist
It can manifest in several way's,,It's simply what Mr. Lewis believes. You could probably hand the custom gun to someone standing next too him and it would shoot better. And even if wittnessing that, he will still define his gun better for him. It's simple, he's stuck in a paradox really.

Are T/C's good guns? Yes. Will a custom gun make a poor shooter better? No.
I too have seen a good shooter with a TC out shoot poor shooters with expensive guns. ALOT!

I know of one Gentelman that vehemently defended TC as the best gun out there for years, YEARS. He now has custom gun's, and of course THOSE are now the best guns out there. His custom guns are even better than others and he will point out the individual facts to support it.

 

[Swampman]

I wouldn't call a TVM a custom gun. I'd call it semi-production gun.

A one hole group is a one hole group.

I've owned one custom rifle that shot one hole groups. It had a Colerain barrel and was built by Jack Hubbard. Jack regulates his guns before shipping so you don't need to bend the barrel or mount the sights 1/2" to one side or another to get on target at close range.

 

[Little Wattsy]

I wouldn't call a TVM a custom gun. I'd call it semi-production gun.

A one hole group is a one hole group.

I've owned one custom rifle that shot one hole groups. It had a Colerain barrel and was built by Jack Hubbard. Jack regulates his guns before shipping so you don't need to bend the barrel or mount the sights 1/2" to one side or another to get on target at close range.

need to bend the barrel :shocked2: WHO exactly makes custom guns, custom barrels, or ANY barrel for that matter that needs "bending"/"regulation" in order to shoot accurately?
Just for my own information of course.....

:haha: :youcrazy: :haha: :youcrazy: :haha: :youcrazy: ....The :bull: just never stops. :wink:

 

[nkbj]

For years, I killed deer regularly with a $120 Traditions percussion. Cheap may mean a gun is built using plastic and other shortcuts and is not remotely authentic; but it doesn't necessarily follow that it won't shoot well and give the owner many years of good service.

Thanks Hanshi. You just provided the inspiration for the naming of the new house gun I'm waiting on, a black stocked Traditions flinter Deerhunter...gonna call it my Glock.

 

[mjones1579]

I dunno guys, since I got old enough to stop dreaming of women every night I've been dreaming of a Pedersoli Mountain rifle in fancy maple. Ya gotta lust after something. :grin:

 

[RickD]

I agree

 

[Swampman]

I dunno guys, since I got old enough to stop dreaming of women every night I've been dreaming of a Pedersoli Mountain rifle in fancy maple. Ya gotta lust after something. :grin:

My friend has one and it's a real beauty.

 

[Tumblernotch]

After reading that ad, I have to ask: Did CVA actually make the Mountain Rifle in a flintlock version? I've never seen one.

They sure did! I had one in .50 that I bought back around'78 or '79. The touchhole made a 90 deg. turn in the patent breech and I had a lot of trouble keeping it firing, but a local gunmaker did some work rounding the bend in the channel and opening it up a little near the chamber and it fired good after that. It had a beautiful stock with a lot of feathering. The lock wasn't the best, but I had been fooling with percussion for several years and didn't know much about flinters yet. I paid about $175 for it. I got rid of it in an even trade for an Austrian Lorenz in '82.

 

[ebiggs1]

That is one fine story and very well said. Thanx
EB