CVA - Sidehammers Gone...

[sabotloader]

I am reading that CVA is dicontinuing production of all Traditional Muzzleloaders, including the St. Louis Hawkin. Has anyone else heard this? They are continuing with inlines introducing another new model this year.

if this is so, wonder who is next???

 

[cayugad]

Yes I heard the same thing. I think it is a shame that a company that produced a lot of affordable sidelocks which got many people started , would end that part of their line. It is a shame, but people will have to look else where for their traditional start. Maybe the sale of better quality traditional rifles will result from this...

 

[leslie]

Thats what I hear no more CVA side hammers.If the Euro keeps going up most made in Europe sidehammers will be too expensive compared to many domestic guns of far better quality.

 

[caneman]

I hope you're right cayugad, but I know in my case the dollars have kept me out of M/L for years. I think it's more likely to put even more newbies into in-lines like the NEF when the "Bobcat" and such are no longer available.

With smokeless I could buy a MilSurp for $125 and a box of shells for $12 and go shooting. With a M/L I'll have a couple hundred + before I pull a trigger the first time on my new Bobcat. If I was talking about a good M/L rifle, even used, plus accesories I'd be looking at $400 +. New - forget it. I'd never get there. Granted, not everyones budget is as tight as mine though.

 

[LeeRoy87]

Tinderbox...You're absolutely right. If I hadn't bought my muzzle loaders years ago, there's no way I could afford to get into muzzle-loading at today's prices.

I don't think that's an accident either. I have heard (but can't prove) there was real fear on the part of the powers that be -- fear that criminals would take advantage of the muzzleloader exemptions to GCA-68 and Instant Check. Allegedly, pressure was applied to the manufacturers to raise prices accordingly. Note for example how the prices of many guns effectively doubled in the late 1980s, even as quality declined and overall inflation was almost negligible.

 

[blackpowder shooter]

I think it more of a decission to but the effort into what is selling at Wal-mart. Like it or not , the inlines sell to the beginner to be used for hunting. We can thank all the outdoor magizines for doing such a great sales job.

 

[Old Charlie]

I hate to tell you this ,but inflation was running wild in the 80s. CDs were paying 13% interest.
Old Charlie

 

[montanadan]

Cayugad- I just did a search at the CVA web-site, and could not find one side lock. I think it is a shame , a lot folks and their kids got started in this sport because of in-expensive rifles like the BOB-CAT. With the prices of imports going up every week(seems like it), I think maybe we will lose some entry level shooters? Traditions just had another price increase, a pretty hefty one at that. Lyman's are getting expensive as well. I think a family, that needs entry level rifles for the kids , might just have hard time working it into the budget? Just some thoughts...Respectfully Montanadan..p.s. CVA still uses the FLINT-LOCK in their 'LOGO'.

 

[muzlodr]

As of last night, Midway still offers CVA Hawkens @ $189.99 and Mountain Rifles @ 209.99. Although listed as "discontinued" they say that they will ship next business day. I couldn't find how many they had left in stock, though. They only showed up with a search on their catalogue number. They did not show with a search on flint or percussion.
As recentely al last Saturday, Sportmans Warehouse (Iwas at the one in Thornton, CO) still had a Lyman Great Plains percussion kit for sale for $239.95 and a Traditions for $189 - not sure on that one, though. Unfortunately my wife was with me and said "NO". I tried the great investment argument, but... :m2c:

 

[caneman]

Actually, when I got transfered to OK in 1979 interest rates were at 11.9% for a home loan. By 1982 they had come down to 9% and dropped more over the next 3 years. The big price increases came after the interest dropped. M/L kit prices today are about twice what the price of finished rifles were in 1992. Seems like I'm always behind the curve. I really don't see how some of you guys can afford the buckskinner route. Prices are just way out of the reach of some of us so we'll always be backseaters.

 

[brian turpin]

It's a fairly expensive hobby, but it's cheaper than a bass boat! :: At least that's what I tell my wife!
Bimbo

 

[silverfox]

Tinderbox: There are still some good deals to be found you just have to keep looking. Our group has picked up a couple loaner guns (hawken type) in the last 6 months for under $100 each very nice guns. I got a Jack Garner 18 years old but never fired 2 months ago for $500 just keep looking.
Also Deerfield makes a CVA lookalike and there is a H & Allen underhammer being made both are reasonable priced and good looking guns. I'm in the same possition as you don't have the excess cash but can't turn down bargains.
Fox :thumbsup:

 

[jim gray]

The Cabela's hawken rifles still seem like a pretty reasonable deal. I picked up a couple of Traditions Flinters for my kids last year, unfortunately they are plasttic stocked flinters, but they are flintlocks and I thought plastic stocks would hold up a lot better in the hands of a 13 year old girl and 12 year old boy.

I also picked up a couple of Lymans on clearance at Walmart, 2 Trade Rifles for $140 and Great Plains Rifle for $200, I thought that I couldn't afford to pass up those deals given the current trend in ML prices, I will not sell those guns, because it would cost me at least twice as much to replace them. I traded one of the Trade Rifles for a Colt Dragoon revolver though.

I ordered a T/C Renegade from Fox Ridge, too. It only cost me $330 through a local dealer, and they let me lay it away. I don't know about your situation Tinderbox, but most dealers are pretty flexible about their lay away plans. Thay seem to try pretty hard to be accomodating if you tell them you'll need a little more time to pay off a gun.

I hope the moderators will forgive me for posting this here; my guns are all flinters, but under the circumstances I thought that the post would be appropriate to this thread.

 

[Tahquamenon]

Although I'm not a big fan of BPI/CVA in anything to include their Spanish sidelocks, I would be sorry to see them disappear from the market.
Are they in fact discontinuing sidelocks or have removed from their website to re-organize? Did someone actually speak with CVA?

 

[Don]

I for one am disapointed to see CVA discontinue their sidelocks. They are the reason I got into traditional ML. Unable to afford custom or high end production rifles I went to CVA. Though they are not heirloom quality I have learned to work on their locks to make them reliable and dress them up to make them more appealing visually. Deer Creek still sells a lot of their stuff especially in kit form. I should probably buy a few and dress them up for future sale. Without CVA I would probably not have been able to get into deer hunting or the rendezvous scene. Dispite their shortcomings they are accurate and servisable guns.

Don

 

[LeeRoy87]

Old Charlie...if you're talking about the EARLY '80s, you're absolutely right. But ML prices remained remarkably constant despite the 12-14 percent annual inflation rates that carried over from the '70s. Even so, especially with U.S. made guns, advances in robotics -- automation -- enabled manufacturers to keep prices down.

But, just as I said originally, I was talking about the late '80s, when inflation was well under control. Yet that's when[url] U.S.-made[/url] ML prices made the biggest jumps. If memory serves me, T/C's Renegade skyrocketed from about $225 to nearly $375, and the Ruger Old Army soared from around $250 to more than $400, all in a 2-3 year period, maybe 1988-1991.

As to alleged pressure from the government to raise prices, that claim came from a couple of FFL dealers, probably in 1990, plus someone deeply involved in the replica-firearm industry.

 

[WV_Hillbilly]

Howdy Folks,

I'm new here, and this looked like a good place to start--even though I'm the "bearer of bad news".

Yes, I was in contact with CVA's Customer Service Manager/Public Relations. I inquired about the supposed discontinuation of all sidehammer guns, AND all pistols too.

It is 100% true. CVA will only be selling inline rifles and shotguns from now on. To paraphrase the response, "the change was a MUST, due to market demand, for CVA to remain in business". CVA did not specifically address their dropping all pistol products, but I'm sure it's due to lack of sales.

Also according to CVA, they sold off the old stock of parts to make room for the inline replacement/repair parts.

I gather from this, that if you have a problem with an older CVA sidehammer rifle/shotgun, or CVA pistol... you're pretty much "stuck with it".

It is unfortunate that most persons newly into muzzleloading are driving the market with their purchase of an inline design and associated accessories.

Most of the "muzzleloader shooters" that I am friends with, are shooting inlines with black powder pelletized substitutes, saboted pistol bullets, and modern shotgun primers. Some even have scopes. When I asked them why, they explained that it was just another way to "kill more deer". I think the same applies to their "bowhunting" as well.

If that is typical of today's hunters' attitudes, then are we merely becoming a relic of the past!?!?!

From now on, traditional muzzleloading is going to be VERY expensive, as most of the "off the shelf" guns are imports from Italy, and the US Dollar is not doing very favourably against the Euro. OR... we can hope to find a good used "older gun" on auction sites, or at gun shops, gun shows, etc... same goes for parts.

There is another option; but I do not have the financial resources to purchase a custom made gun either. Even buying quality parts and building one myself isn't a viable option--good parts generally cost big money (at least to me).
I'm not completely helpless with mechanical things, or tools, or putting together (taking apart) complicated things, but I wouldn't come close to ending up with a decent looking gun.

Any one else care to comment?

WV_Hillbilly

 

[Cherokee]

Is there anybody with these sidelocks still in stock?
I would like one. I have a rifle kit right now that really hurt me to buy if I could find one before there gone that would really help.

 

[freetrapper20]

Howdy back to ya'! Most of the people I know that muzzleloader hunt around here all hunt with in-lines also. Matter of fact I'm the only one that hunts in my hunting group with a traditional style muzzleloader. I have 4 rifles an 1 pistol and they are all T/Cs or traditions....maybe one day I'll have a nice custom made firearm. But right now these guns serve me well, putting a few bucks in the freezer each year and getting a few prizes at rendezvous every now and then. A few years ago, in a pinch I could still pop in wal-mart and get some "traditional" accessories. Not anymore. BassPro shops just built a brand new facility 45 minutes away from me. Their selection isn't any better. Its all about making $$$. In their huge display cases in the firearms section there isn't the first side hammer. (They might be pictured in the catalog but I have never seen the first one in the store). Guess that shows how important that stuff is in my neck of the woods. Most of us have a different mindeset and I'm glad for that. Just disappointed that all that we know and cherish just seems to not be of any value anymore to so called "society". Thank goodness for the people that keep what we love alive. If I have to special order something, so be it. Its supports somebody else with the same ideals. As for the others that are dropping us for the almighty dollar, let it be their loss. Sorry for ramb'lin......

 

[vradin]

Is there anybody with these sidelocks still in stock?

Check wally world (walm*rt) for the CVA Bobcat. You'll probably have to ask the manager. It's a decent affordable gun, if you can find them. It has a cheap plastic lightweight stock, and the barrel is made in Spain, but the darned little thing is a shooter.

If Wallyworld doesn't have them, I've found them at Fleet Farm (The Man's Mall), and some Cabela's and Bass Pro Shops. Again- Ask the department manager as these stores don't make profit from the cheap cva's like they do on a nice engraved Italian SxS.

It's also easy to upgrade with a new stock if you're into woodworking, and Dixie carries a nice supply of parts.

vic