Decisions on fowler

[Oldnamvet]

I plan on ordering a fowler kit soon and realized that I have some other decisions to make. Barrel length and bore. I am not into historically correct stuff so use is the main thing. I'll be using it for clay birds mostly and once in a while shooting PRB. Mostly for the fun of it but possibly for deer hunting. Perhaps chukar/pheasant hunting a few times a year as well. So, 30", 36", 42" and 28ga, 20 ga, 16, ga, 12 ga, or something else? I typically shoot with a 30" bbl on my modern shotgun for skeet and trap but 42" seems like I should be able to reach out and hit some of the birds on windy days.

 

[robinghewitt]

I am not into historically correct stuff so use is the main thing.

But history tells you what worked best. Here's some approximates by period off the top of my head :grin:

If it's percussion, 12 gauge 28-32 inches, emulate the live pigeon gun.

If it's flint then it depends on the breeching...

Common breech 20/16 gauge 36-42 inches, shoot sitters unless you are good.

Nock's patent breech, 16/14 gauge, 28-32 inches, shoot anything.

Late pattern fancy patent lock and breech, 16 gauge 28-32 inches. Shoots like a percussion.

The thing is, there's no cartridge end to roll over so you have no way to delay the start of the shot moving up the tube while you get the pressure up. Everything depends on how much of the charge you can light when you pull the trigger.

Chokes probably came in to use late 19th century but it was just something the quality makers did, the patents came later when they started the field trials.

Opinions may vary :hmm:

 

[thewho66]

Barrel length 36 or 42 inchs, gauge I would go with 20 just to keep the round ball cheaper and easier to find. Just my .02 cents.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Mike Brooks has his fowler "kit" out now. It's more of a nice pre-carve type stock that you can choose your own lock and hardware for. It has good "average" dimensions on the stock profile to allow for decent wing shooting, unlike any of the others out there I have knowledge of. All the others I have seen just have too much comb drop.

His stock is cut for a 44" Colerain barrel and can get it in 16 or 20 ga.
I would go with the 16 ga. barrel for your stated purposes. I like to go with the largest bore sizes if shot is the main use.
I am currently putting one together now but in 20 bore. The stock is square on the forestock to allow for easy drilling, the barrel and ramrod channel are done except for the breech area of course. The stock profile is nicely done and the butt is inlet for th chambers fowler BP. This stock allows for your choice of hardware and the lock area has not been pre-inlet so you can go left or right or have more choices in locks.

If you are looking for a snap together kit, I dont think there is one for a fowling piece.

Here is Mike's latest one built from his fowler kit. http://www.fowlingguns.com/forsale.html

 

[tg]

If I were mainly shooring birds except for long range waterfoul, I would go with a 16 gauge 42" barrel in a light profile, and make it fit like a glove for wingshooting.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Well put. And it will still throw ball with good effect, too. :thumbsup:

 

[Oldnamvet]

Right now looks like it will be a flintlock English fowler with 42" barrel, most likely 20 gauge. I have not put one together where I had to do a lot of inletting. The Lyman GPR kit I built had that mostly completed. Should be an adventure for sure. Now to work it into the budget with SWMBO. :hmm:

 

[paulvallandigham]

A 36 inch barrel with either a 20 gauge or 12 gauge barrel will fit you most like what you have been shooting. I would choose( and did) the 20 gauge for round ball shooting. A 325 grain round ball will do it out to 50 yards and a bit beyond. I have not killed a deer beyond 40 yards, simply because in the thick bottom stuff I hunt, that is as far as I have been able to get a shot. I have had deer walk up to powder burn range while standing on the ground. I have taken deer with a 12 gauge, but at the range I have been shooting them, a 20 gauge is sufficient. My gun is a flint, half octagon, half round barrel fowler. Weight is around 7+ pounds. I have a 30 inch barrel on my fowler, and I was used to shooting an over/under 12 ga. trap gun with 30 inch tubes. The 30 inch tube on my fowler does not feel short to me, although you read from people all the time about this being a short barreled gun. If you have been shooting a pump or semi-auto shotgun, that extra 6 inches on your barrel will put that front sight out about the same place you have been used to with your modern guns.

Best wishes. I think you are going to like the gun, whatever you choose. :thumbsup:

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I have a 20 bore fowler with a 42" barrel and I am pleased with it. My one regret however is that I did not go with a 16 gauge. It nicely splits the difference between a 20 and a 12 gauge but a 16 will weigh in like a 20 while throwing heavier shot charges. Oh well, it gives me a good excuse for another gun.

 

[Oldnamvet]

Yup, I normally shoot a wingmaster with 30" barrel. So the sight on a 36" barrel would be in about the same place owing to the length taken up by the receiver. As long as the balance is right, an extra 6" would not bother me (I don't think anyway). I think I will have to ask around (again) and see if anyone in my club has a fowler so I can feel the balance. Otherwise I am just guessing here. Other than the balance and appearance, I don't see any ballistic advantage of the longer barrel. But I do think it just looks neat and would certainly promote a smooth swing on birds.
Distance to deer isn't an issue for me either. Last time I was out I actually reached out and spanked a doe on the rump as she walked by my blind. :rotf: Talk about instant overdrive.
Oh well, if I decide I need a different .. er .. 2nd fowler, I have a son-in-law who will certainly welcome using the first one. Promoting family unity, bonding, etc. :thumbsup:

 

[paulvallandigham]

If you can, try several fowlers in different gauges. My only reluctance in endorsing or promoting the 16 gauge is my concern about the availability of wads. The 16 gauge is almost dead as a modern cartridge gun, and, while I certainly agree with Mr. Brooks, and others here that it is a fine choice for many hunting purposes, I worry about finding molds, wads, etc. They are out there now, of course, but for how long?

I have seen many fine cast bullet molds dropped from production by Lyman over the years, and in fact had to order one old Lyman mold I had sought for many years from Ray Pine( Rapine Molds.) It cost much more than the Lyman mold blocks would have cost, but his mold is excellent and second to none. Several years after I bought the mold from Ray, Lyman began making that mold again, for a few years. I understand its now gone again.

My gunmaker left a bit extra wall thickness in my fowler barrel, and even at 30 inches, I don't feel that the gun is bouncy, or whippy. I don't have any trouble with follow-through. Its not quite as heavy as my Remington 870, but it carries well, and shoots well. The 36 inch barrel will point a bit better, but I would feel a 42 incher would be a bit of a drag to be swinging on crossing birds. AGain, these are matters for personal preference, and I refuse to argue with anyone who prefers the longer barrels. I met a man who insists that shooting his 48 inch barrel is the way to go! When I tried his gun, it was too front heavy for my taste, but he hit his targets with it. And, he seemed to be able to push that barrel around fast enough to catch those crossing targets. That is why I don't argue with anyone about their choice.

I never hesitate to let someone who is " shopping " try any of my guns I have at hand. Other friends were nice enough to let me shoulder their guns, and even shoot them when I was first " lookin' ", and that curtesy allowed me to make a much more informed decision on what to buy.


I wish you well. :hatsoff:

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

My modern shotgun is a Winchester double in 12 gauge with 28" barrels. There is no way to compare it with my fowler. This is a common mistake people make--comparing modern guns with fowlers, both in terms of handling and loads. Talk about an example of comparing apples and oranges! I have no problem with crossing shots on birds and don't know anyone who does. The long barrel syndrome is a problem in the minds of some folks, but not for those who use them. And they pose no problems in the woods either. Someone usually brings up the difficulty they are having with a long barrel in thick brush. Right. If you are stalking through thick brush, then you have really screwed up somewhere and are making so much noise that barrel length is the least of your problems.
Maybe you'd be better served by a later half stocked shotgun? They don't looked so stubby with a short barrel--they often came that way--and the early flint guns were very handsome indeed. A true fowler with a short barrel looks clubby and inelegant, and it gets worse as the bore gets larger.
As for components, they are readily available in all gauges, but the purchase of a wad cutter in the proper size may alleviate any concerns that may have been raised in your mind. Some problems just don't exist.

 

[tg]

". The long barrel syndrome is a problem in the minds of some folks"

It goes for rifles also. It probably got a good kick off from T&C they mentioned in a magazine interview that they could not imagine going thru the woods with a 42" barrel and that is how the short TC Hawken barrel was born and all the short barreled clones that followed,all an attempt to capture the essence of the old guns but still not letting go of what we have become comfortable in with our centerfire guns.They also thought that a gun "needed" to be able to shoot a conical for hunting, though they could not find an original style that worked well, so they designed their own and the rest is history, if not historical... :rotf:

 

[Trapper]

Hey Guys, two years ago I built a 16 ga with a colerain 44 inch barrel. The stock is black walnut carved from a blank. I built this gun for turkey and deer. In my opinion the pattern was not dense enough at 25 yrds, so I jug choked it myself with a brake hone. Now it puts 132 pellets out of 191 from a 1 1/16 oz load(#5 shot). She also shoots a prb quite well out to 50 yrds. Off the bench she'll keep them in a 3-4 inch circle at 50 yrds. As for 16 guage wads, I've found that if you want to go modern you can still buy plastic shot cups, to go period correct you can get 16 guage overpowder cards, fiber wads and over shot cards from Circle Fly. But here's what I found with my smoothie, 65 grains of ffg followed by a 12 guage wool wad over the powder( you can't buy 16 ga wool wads, need to make your own), 1 1/16 oz. of #5 shot and an overshot card.The 12 ga. wool wads go down the 16 ga just fine and I think they seal the better that my homemade wool wads( kicks more with the 12 ga wads).I've found that the best groups come from using wool wads over the powder or 3-4 overshot cards over the powder charge. Your smoothie will tell you what she likes best just like a woman!

 

[Mike Brooks]

I can't add much to what has already been written. Circle fly sells wads for any guage as well as wads for pistols and rifles. I've always used Circle Fly wads and always had excellent results. Just got a box of cards and wads from them last week as a matter of fact.
CIRCLE FLY WADS
Barrel length. I've owned and shot flint shotguns with barrels from 32" to 60". For upland hunting I've found barrels 42" to 48" to be my favorites. I've always hunted over close working dogs. For any of the fast clay games like skeet and sporting clays I like 32" to 42".
Guage size. I've shot everything from 28ga to 10ga. 28-20 I like for small game hunting, squirrels and rabbits, nothing with feathers. 20ga can be used for turkeys if you jug it. Clay games I like 18-12. Upland hunting 16-10.
All the above info relates to shooting shot. For round ball I suggest 28 - 20ga. A good combo gun might be a 20 or 16 bore.

 

[robertdale]

if this for wing shooting a 30-34 barrel will give very good results. 16 ga. is a bit rare in todays m.l. but still a good choice as wads are readily available. I personally do not like a long barrel for a field gun,to hard to load in a blind, but if strutting thru camp in period gear the 42-48 barrel is great.
just my 2 bits worth, rev. Ironjaw

 

[tg]

Good to see you here Ironjaw, you have sent many folks down the path with a fine gun cradled in their arm..

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Warren Center's explanation for the coil spring mainspring was that a vee spring wouldn't last five minutes in hunting use.
Guess he didn't know about all those original guns that did just fine with them for hundreds of years!

 

[Capt. Jas.]

My son says his new Mike Brooks fowler with 42" Griffin barrel in 12 bore feels much like his 32" Beretta O/U competition gun in weight and dynamics. :thumbsup:

He has to re-program for leads on crossing targets with that flintlock though. :rotf:

 

[Oldnamvet]

He has to re-program for leads on crossing targets with that flintlock though.

That and learn to duck down after shooting to see under the smoke to see if anything fell/broke/or just sailed away.