Decisions...what a grand dilemma

[drwhip]

Hi guys,
I've been wanting a flinter about as long as I can remember. I've decided that I'm going to build an Isaac Haines in .54 for chasing deer, elk, and pronghorn out here in Montana. Reason for this choice is I think this rifle is mighty pretty and I like the idea of a wee bit shorter barrel for getting in the thick stuff with those mountain critters. Okay, the choice I am having trouble with is to go with TOTW's kit or to go with Chambers' kit. I'm in the middle of putting together an S. Hawken right now so this is a project for next winter, so waiting on barrels for delivery isn't much of a problem. I'm kind of leaning towards Chambers but I'm open to suggestions and looking to tap into the collective experience of this board. Also willing to look at other models ( is 6" of barrel really going to make that much of a difference in the woods?) as this might be the only Lancaster style rifle that I ever build. So throw in your .02 boys and let me know what you think. I figure if I go with Chambers I might as well get that barrel ordered asap. BTW, I'm new to this forum and sure have enjoyed reading the posts and have picked up some good info, so I give you all a heartfelt thanks for being part of this.
:applause:
YMH&OS, Bearman

 

[bob1961]

i had the same dilemma as i was planning my lancaster .54 weather to get the 38" or 42" and thought it was only a 4" difference....so i went with the 42"....as to being long and the brush i didn't let that bother me as i will carry it where ever....even in a tree satnd but most of my hunting is on the ground anyway like 99%.................bob

 

[rootnuke]

4-6" in the right place makes all the difference in everything. ::

I bought from TOW, I've heard that a little more quality pre-inlet is done on the Chambers.

My rule on ordering is; if you got it send it, if you aint got it then I'll look for someone who does, if no one has it, order from the person that lies the best on when they'll get it.

Stay off the beaten path for finding what you need. You'd be surprised as to whet you'll find at some of the smaller dealers that larger dealers have back ordered. :redthumb:

 

[drwhip]

Rootnuke - The job you did on your rifle was spectacular. Have you had a chance to shoot it yet? Was that a Colerain barrel? Also, what were some of the smaller sources you used for parts (where did that patchbox come from)? What does your rifle weigh?
Bob - did you go with a kit or did you just parts it out yourself?
Thanks guys! Bearman

 

[bob1961]

i'm goimg with different parts from here and there....a rice barrel,a chambers lock, a davis trigger and a pecatonica river stock....i'm waiting til i get all that stuff before i make my mind up on any furniture like the butt plate, thimbles and the such..................bob

 

[rootnuke]

Rootnuke - The job you did on your rifle was spectacular. - Thank you!

Have you had a chance to shoot it yet? Yes

Was that a Colerain barrel? Yes

Also, what were some of the smaller sources you used for parts (where did that patchbox come from)? They are not small but they are good for everything http://www.muzzleloaderbuilderssupply.com
Do yourself a favor, order the catalog, YOU WILL NOT BE SORRY!

What does your rifle weigh? I have no idea.

Bob - did you go with a kit or did you just parts it out yourself?
Thanks guys! Bearman [/quote]
http://www.muzzleloaderbuilderssupply.com

 

[Terry Zboril]

I've decided that I'm going to build an Isaac Haines in .54 for chasing deer, elk, and pronghorn out here in Montana. Reason for this choice is I think this rifle is mighty pretty and I like the idea of a wee bit shorter barrel for getting in the thick stuff with those mountain critters.YMH&OS, Bearman

Bearman,
In RCA Volume 1, there are 3 Isaac Haines guns listed with barrel lengths of 38", 44" and 47", so that gives you quite a bit of range on barrel length.

Go with what will suit you best, as there are trade-offs in everything.

Shorter barrels are generally lighter and easier handled in thick stuff for quick shots, while longer barrels are generally more accurate at longer ranges (antelope?), due mostly to the longer sight radius. (a 38" straight octagon barrel is approximately the same weight as a 42" "swamped" barrel, if weight and balance is a concern.)

The Haines Lancasters are truly beautiful works of art and architecture,(as are all Lancasters), and I doubt that this will be your only one, after your first, especially when,(not IF) you get hooked on flinters.

Regards,
Terry

 

[drwhip]

Just thought I'd see if I could get some more opinions to my question....Anyone built a TOW or Chambers Lancaster style kit? What was your experience like building it? Was the quality of the wood to your satisfaction? Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks, Bearman

 

[DanL]

Hi Bearman,

I built a Chambers Isaac Haines. It has a 38" getz swamped barrel. I took my time and asked many questions. I am very happy with the results. I like a simple gun so I have no carving or patch box.

The gun handles like a dream and is extremely accurate. I have no reservations suggesting that you go with Chambers. I have gone back to Chambers for my next project which will be their English fowler. Mr. Chambers has always answered any questions that come up. Blackpowder Barbie (Chambers) has also been a big help with my new project.

Respectfully,
DanL

 

[drwhip]

Thanks Dan,
Even though I've never spoken personally with either one of them, I get the sense that they are top notch folks! At this point in time, it looks like I'll be going with them. Regards, Bearman

 

[Darkhorse]

Bearman, Before you order look at the Dunlap kits. He sells an Isacc Haines and a couple of others. Better price, good wood and the same components. Birddog 6 can vouch for Wayne Dunlap.
I built an Isacc Haines from TOW. It came out great with no major problems. The 38" swamped barrel is a joy to hunt with.
I had planned on building a .40 B profile using the Dunlap parts but when I ordered I found the LH wasn't available in B profile. So I ordered a Rice barrel from LC Rice in .40 cal, 38" B profile. Then I ordered everything else from TOW.
For strictly a big game rifle I prefer a single trigger. But if I was hunting antelope I think I would prefer a double set trigger. In this case I think the Dunlap is the better choice as the Davis trigger is a little cheaper from them and perhaps the trigger mortice will be a better fit.

I bought the Davis #4 for my .40 but after inletting it will need some wood slivers glued in around part of the trigger plate as the plate is narrower than the preinlet plate in the TOW stock. I knew this going in but wanted set triggers. I don't think the Dunlap or Chambers will have this problem, not sure though.

A colrain barrel is fine, available and cheaper. But for several reasons; outside finish, inside finish, breech plug length, etc. It is worth it to me to wait for the Rice barrel.

Most of the original Isacc Haines were 42" according to Don Getz the reason the first kits were 38" is that length barrel worked best in the duplicarver that was available when they were developing the first kits.

I would recommend that aside from lock and barrel, you order all your small parts such as trigger guard, buttplate, pipes etc. from the supplier you get your stock from. This way they will fit better and they were chosen to be as PC and correct as possible.
Anyway why pay extra shipping to several supply houses?

 

[barbie]

Hi Bearman,

I built a Chambers Isaac Haines. It has a 38" getz swamped barrel. I took my time and asked many questions. I am very happy with the results. I like a simple gun so I have no carving or patch box.

The gun handles like a dream and is extremely accurate. I have no reservations suggesting that you go with Chambers. I have gone back to Chambers for my next project which will be their English fowler. Mr. Chambers has always answered any questions that come up. Blackpowder Barbie (Chambers) has also been a big help with my new project.

Respectfully,
DanL

Thanks DanL!

I won't bore you guys with a lengthy sales pitch here - plus it's better in person or over the phone anyway. That way you get the Southern accent! When Dad goes hunting out west (usually for mule deer or elk - big stuff) he likes to take his 58 cal. Edward Marshall. No, it's not like the elegant Lancaster or Haines, but it is a hell of a hunter. If you're not going for anything that big, and might be interested in a 50 cal. your options go up greatly with us. I don't advertise it much, but I can get either the Lancaster or Haines kits cut to fit a 'B' weight barrel. Thus dropping the calibers to 40, 45, or 50 and making the weight much lighter. However, I still think a 54 in those two gives them the best overall balance.

As for comparing the 46" barrel to the 38". Yes, the longer the barrel the more velocity you'll get on the ball as it clears the muzzle thus making it more accurate. However, there is a rather large weight difference - on average about 1.75 lbs, so if you're planning on trekking through the woods carrying it all day that might be something else to consider.

As for barrel wait times, with Rice barrels he's down to about 4-6 weeks right now. That would be the biggest delay in either of those kits - I've gone a little wild ordering stocks lately, the shop runneth over!! :haha:

 

[riverrat43]

Ms. Barbie,
In my best Southern accent, my mamma raised big ugly boys, not little pretty and smart ones. Does your smooth rifle come in a pull length longer than 13 3/4"? Maybe like 15 inches?

 

[drwhip]

Hello Barbie,
No sales pitch needed. I've yet to hear one thing negative about your operation and your reputation speaks for itself. Plus you're just plain ol' nice Now, I do have a question for you. I'm looking for a .54 that I can stoke up pretty good to get the velocity I want (in the neighborhood of 2000 fps if I can) which would necessitate charges in the 120 or 130 gr FFg range. Will this mean I need a barrel longer than 40"? Are Rice barrels proofed for these charges? Weight isn't that big of a deal, I reckon, as I'm building an S. Hawken gun right now that will be around 10 1/2 pounds when I'm done. That Lancaster will not only be prettier to look at, it'll be a pleasure to carry after totin' that pig around the mountains next fall! But a man's gotta have a proper "mountain gun" way I figgur' it. BTW, I used to live to the east of you over in Jacksonville, NC 25 years ago. Too hot and humid for this child so I made for the mountains. My sister and Mom are still in NC though so I make it back every year. Take care and Thanks! Bearman

 

[Darkhorse]

Barbie,
If you don't advertise something how are we to know its available?
I did check your website before I ordered the stock and all from Track, but all thats listed for lefthanders is the C profile.
Anyway thats water under the bridge as my stock and all arrived (with no backorders) last Wednesday and is now residing in the closet in my den waiting on the barrel.
Now maybe next year I'll talk to you about a LH fowler.

 

[barbie]

Riverrat - Yes, We can make them in longer pulls. What we do for that is not inlet the butt plate at all and leave a big piece of wood at the end for you to shape and then inlet the plate. Definitely can get a least a 15" out of it.

Bearman - I'll ask LC about his proof charges and what he thinks would be best in his barrels. He was just here, but of course I hadn't read this yet. I'll get back to you on Monday. If you're ever in NC near the mountains, give us a call and stop by! The shop is in the basement so we're here pretty much all the time - unless of course it's good fishin' weather! :shake:

Dark Horse - You've got a great point. With our new kit coming out soon I've got to update the catalog in a major way. I'll see what I can do about adding the availability of 'B' weight variations in to it. Dad came up the variations many years ago, but they weren't a big hit then so he never added the info to the catalog. Now that barrels are becoming more available, guess it's about time to get them out there.

Many of our kits have several choices on them - i.e. locks, brass or iron, or barrels. Before settling on a kit, give me a buzz or send an e-mail and I can go over more of the specifics!

Thanks guys for all your great words! :master: