deer medicine

[Lonegun1894]

I think it will do the job if the placement is perfect and the range kept short. We had a member post about taking one with a .32 not too long ago, but that was also a matter of close range and perfect placement--and a good shooter who was disciplined and skilled enough to do the job. I personally dont belive that 45grs FFFg is the top load for your rifle however, and if a heavier load will still be accurate, I would go heavier. I use 70grs FFFg in my .50 and 80 grs FFFg in my .54, and both work wonders on deer without undue stress on the rifle or any shooter who has shot my loads in my rifles. I have not fired my .45 yet, but plan on correcting that this week.

 

[jdkerstetter]

I've never shocked any deer to it's death with a muzzleloader. They all died from a loss of blood.

I don't know what to say as I don't know if your kidding or not

I don't want a blood trail. I prefer to drop them where they stand.

Me too and wish this was always the case. But, when it's not a blood trail is handy....even if it's short. :thumbsup:


Everybody, I don't want to get into an hunting ethics debate and I'll probably get flamed for this but I feel the minimums are only justified when it's your only option...no other gun, child, handi-capped, etc.

Smokepole here has a viable option...more powder. Sure 45 grains will kill a deer, if everything works out OK.

If it doesn't? 70 or so grains is insurance!

More powder=more energy and the greater the margin of error.

There is really no such thing as overkill....dead is dead....and hunting situations are rarely "ideal" situations.

Smokepole asked a question and I think he deserves the best answer not just what will/might work.

And I don't hear anybody here saying they've done it....you all shoot more that 45 grains...by a wide margin....you must do it for a reason!!!

What if he asked about hunting wild bore on the ground with a .32? It would work....but... :shake:

J.M.2.C./ J.D.

 

[Ben Grace]

I didn't think 45g 3f was enough and as it turned out 45 was a typo in my manual a friend had the same mannual and his says 55g 3f which is equal to 65g 2f. Which I agree with alot of the other guys seems rather on the conservative side, I'm going to try 70g ff or 60g fff and stay at or above those numbers.I appreciate everybody's input that's why I joined to learn so thanks to everybody, keep'em coming.

 

[roundball]

Just as additional information / perspective, T/C's load data manual has been published going on a half century and their .45cal PRB load data is 50-110grns.

Personally, I've always used 90grns Goex 3F in various .45cals, but for the record am not recommending you exceed your particular gun manufacturer's load data.

 

[Ben Grace]

That's what I've noticed of tc's and others don't know why Investarms is as low as it is.I personally am going to tred lightly but I am going shoot a little heavier loads than what the manual says if need be. Need being accuracy and lethal enough for deer.

 

[Skychief]

I've never shocked any deer to it's death with a muzzleloader. They all died from a loss of blood.

I don't know what to say as I don't know if your kidding or not

J.D.

I am not kidding and don't understand how my post could confuse you. :idunno:

 

[jdkerstetter]

I'll send you a PM.

 

[kodiakmarine]

What is the diameter of your barrel? I have owned two Investarms made rifles, both Lymans with 15/16 barrels. Max load for .54 is 120 FF, 100FF. .50 cal is 110 FF, 90 FFF. The loads get smaller because the more restricted the bore, the quicker the pressure builds.

The drop from .50 to .45 cal seems excessive, even if the barrel has a slightly smaller outside diameter. The 70 FF and 60 FFF sound like safe loads. I know that some of the DGW guns are 13/16 in .45 and they normally recommend 60g FFF for .45 cal.

 

[hanshi]

All the deer I've killed with a .45 were killed using 80 grains 3F - except one killed with 70grns. Seventy grains is my standard now but won't be using the .45 as much as I use to. 60 grns gives 1550fps and 70grns gives 1750 in my rifle.

I've only hunted in two states and both required a minimum charge of 50 grains.

 

[Skychief]

I'll send you a PM.

jdkerstetter, I received your PT. You could have posted it here for everyone's benefit.

In the 2 medical dictionary definitions that you provided, I noticed the following:

Definition 1: ....."organs and tissues of the body are not receiving an adequate flow of blood".

Definiton 2: ......."disturbance due to the failure of the circulatory system to maintain adequate perfusion of vital organs."

With these, you are proving my point that blood loss is the catalyst to an animals death shot through the lungs/heart.


On a hunting board, as this, when one uses the word "shock" (accompanied by "400 ft/lbs"), it is a sure bet the "shock" being discussed is hydrostatic shock caused by a certain projectile and loading. At the least, it is a conotation of a certain energy level.

You go on to mention in your PT that "Generally when one bleeds to death they often have enough blood left in their body to support life...it is just not getting to the organs...shock". So, when one bleeds to death, they still have enough blood to sustain life? Huh? Why then did they die?

Semantics (and chicken or the egg scenarios) aside, deer die if the lungs and/or heart are pierced by a 45 caliber prb. A 45 grain 3f charge is very capable of doing this inside 50 yards. Why? The deer will bleed out. Simple and true.

You mention in this thread that "dead is dead". I couldn't agree more.

No matter if Smokepole32 kills his deer with a nicely placed .45 prb over 45 grains of 3f, or, he drops a Patriot missile on top of it.

His question dealt with a certain load working or not.

Hopefully this will clear up any confusion and not create more.

Hey Smokepole32, Good luck hunting. I think you will make some venison!!! :thumbsup:

Best regards, Skychief

 

[roundball]

Right on the money Skychief...taking deer with a PRB is really nothing more than a form of extended bow hunting.
The goal is to shut off blood flow to the brain.

A broadhead and a lead ball through the heart/lungs gets it done the same way...the lead ball just reaches out and does it a further away.
:thumbsup:

 

[Ben Grace]

15/16 .451boredia

 

[jdkerstetter]

I PM'd you only to be polite, wasn't trying to be an @$$hole. I just didn't feel the need to send the thread off topic.

So, we all agree that blood loss = death.

Can we agree that .45 RB over 70 grains kills more efficiently then over 45 grains?

That just because a deer can be killed with 45 grains of powder that we shouldn't use more? This one's a given since nobody uses that light of load.

I am glad the OP has found his manual in error and will be shooting the heavier loads.

Enjoy and good night, J.D.

 

[kodiakmarine]

Your rifle will easily handle the loads you want to use. Enjoy your new rifle and your hunting. :thumbsup:

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

Back in the seventies when I got my first black powder rifle (TC hawken in 45) I used 50 grains of 3Fg and a PRB to harvest my first deer. It was a little forked horn buck, it was a 40 yard downhill quartering away shot and I put the shot right through the lungs. It took about 20 steps and drop down the hill.

The buck was walking on a trail and was relaxed and unaware of me. I think that had something to do with how quickly it dropped. I have made shots on bigger deer with larger bored guns and heavier loads of powder and because the animal was on alert they ran farther but they did leave great blood trails though.