Defarbed

[Marse Swank]

instead of spending large sums of $, just buy an original peice?

Some do. However, most of us don’t want to take originals in good shape out into the field to potentially be damaged. Usually a good functioning original is going to be more than a repro anyway.

 

[toot]

TOUSCHE! POINT TAKEN! I can live with that logic.

 

[Whitworth]

Since Black powder guns are not firearms under federal law is a serial number even needed? Personally I hate the way some are defaced with all the manure markings. For example my 1961 Uberti 1858 Remington and 1965 Uberti Colt Navy are neatly marked under the rammer lever, That's why I prefer to seek out older produced guns. The do-it yourself defarbed and antiqued 1860 Army I picked up on the cheap looks great and shoots good and I don't worry about it's finish Whatever floats your boat.

 

[deermanok]

Defarbed, is that like FUBAR?

 

[Whitworth]

No, that would be De-FUBARing.

 

[Grenadier1758]

FUBAR implies no recovery. Defarbing is an attempt at recovery and that recovery may be sort of possible.

 

[Marse Swank]

Since Black powder guns are not firearms under federal law is a serial number even needed? Personally I hate the way some are defaced with all the manure markings. For example my 1961 Uberti 1858 Remington and 1965 Uberti Colt Navy are neatly marked under the rammer lever, That's why I prefer to seek out older produced guns. The do-it yourself defarbed and antiqued 1860 Army I picked up on the cheap looks great and shoots good and I don't worry about it's finish Whatever floats your boat.

As I understand it, all foreign import guns of any kind are required by law to have serial numbers and importing company for import. I have a police used CZ 82 handgun that has not only a serial number but also an aftermarket engraved importer and import number on it. I believe this is why all the repro Italian guns have all that trash all over the barrels. Serial numbers don’t matter much because the tooling and castings are different between the three companies that comprise Pedersoli now and depending on your gun, replacement parts don’t match.

 

[Whitworth]

My point is since it's not a firearm under federal law, once it's imported here and sold does the serial number then matter? I know removing serial numbers from "real" firearms is a no-no.

 

[FishDFly]

"does the serial number then matter?"

Must matter to a lot of people. How many posts have there been wanting to know the age of T/C rifle based on serial numbers?

 

[bjarard]

My 1766 charleville looks like it was just issued. A little wear and tear but otherwise it good shape. Doesn't look like its 250 years old...browned and such. Our uniforms run the gamut. Our unit protrays a time when they would have been receiving contract clothing from France..so "newer" looking clothing would have been more accurate than rags.

 

[Marse Swank]

In the repro gun world, knowing the serials don’t matter as much as who made it. Navy Arms, Miroku, Armisport, Euroarms, etc. all made reproductions at one time and all now are defunct or bought up by others. Being that they are reproductions, there just isn’t value in an aged reproduction. The value is in using it for reenactment or decorative wall hangers, and the only way to add value is to defarb and sell to other reenactors. Different story if you have a repro built by a master smith or something, but these aren’t works of art, they’re the $5 picture you buy at Walmart.

As far as the legality of the removal of a serial number, I was under the impression at one time that you could. The serials were for import use only and mattered for nothing beyond that, but maybe someone else could tell me for sure.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

My point is since it's not a firearm under federal law, once it's imported here and sold does the serial number then matter? I know removing serial numbers from "real" firearms is a no-no.

There is no requirement in the United States on the Federal level for a serial number to be affixed to an "antique firearm" and repros of caplock or flintlock firearms, even if they are made 30 minutes after I post this reply, are all considered "antique". Now as to state level, depending on what you are discussing, the state may want a serial number on the "antique firearm"...I'm thinking New Jersey may want them on cap-n-ball revolvers, and so might New York City, but don't know for sure..., and it might only apply after an injury involving said piece had happened. Meaning possession of such a piece might not be in an of itself a violation.

Serial numbers DO matter if one is buying new, and fills out that "stupid little card" that then registers the item for warranty purposes. It also matters for dating of when the item was made for some manufacturers.

Wile some muskets benefit from extra work, that may not be true for all guns/rifles used by reenactors. For example my Pedersoli Bess was "defarbed" before I bought it, and due to the seller's pictures and the fact that the previous owner allowed some rust to build up..., I got it for the cost of less expensive, well used, unaltered Pedersoli Bess. So the butt plate is retro fitted to be an older style, and the side plate is rounded, and the lock had the engraved date changed to the 1750's. All the barrel markings were removed save for the serial number. So in my case YES the mods would and did add value.

But..., say for instance, normally inexpensive cap-n-ball revolvers..., for discussion lets use Pietta "Confederate Navy" revolvers..., which never really existed, as they look like Colt Navy revolvers, BUT they are in .44 and have brass frames. They were literally the least expensive cap-n-ball revolvers on the market, AND they were also on sale when I bought them. They were part of a magazine article on the lowest possible price for entering Cowboy Action Shooting. In fact the article explored the possibility of the shooter actually buying extra cylinders to reduce loading time at the bench at a match.

So..., If I was to sell the set, for it consists of parts, an "Avenging Angel", and two full sized revolvers, plus nine spare cylinders.
So I could sell them to another CAS shooter..., I could sell them to an ACW reenactor who didn't care that they are fantasy revolvers, as he or she would be very "well heeled" after the purchase..., or I could sell them to a person who likes cap-n-ball revolvers..., or I could split up the set. The only things done to them was the removal of the blue and then a mild browning to make them look well used.... and the one revolver which had the barrel shortened and crowned. Taking off the Pietta factory markings would not make these fantasy revolvers any more valuable, and the antiquing was done for another article. The ONLY way these have ever "increased" in value is due to 25 years of inflation of gun prices, which may, today, allow me to recoup what I paid for them but even that sum does not have the same buying power that it did in 1995, eh?

LD

 

[jim bowie]

Here's a thought. Why make it look 150 years old when it would have been new then. After all it took a 150 years to look old now. Wouldn't historically correct actually be a new looking item?? lol have a great day

 

[FishDFly]

We have a winner.

 

[tenngun]

That's amusing in two ways, first that they would hang a repro on the wall and second Meriwether Lewis ordered the Harpers Ferry rifle but they weren't delivered in time for the trip. The corp was issued 1795 Springfield's.

I was out to Washington in 2012. Along the way I stopped at several L&C museums. The 1803 was in a couple. Got down to Point Disappointment in Oregon this was one of the displays

 

[Grenadier1758]

I also remember going to Harper's Ferry about 2004. In their Corps of Discovery display, they had a 1792 contract rifle.

 

[rleisenman]

Here's a thought. Why make it look 150 years old when it would have been new then. After all it took a 150 years to look old now. Wouldn't historically correct actually be a new looking item?? lol have a great day

Bingo, albeit with one caveat. On say, the Federal side of First Manassas there would have been a lot of shiny new equipment. On the Confederate side there would have been a plethora of well used, random, anything that still shoots...

 

[Marse Swank]

Here's a thought. Why make it look 150 years old when it would have been new then. After all it took a 150 years to look old now. Wouldn't historically correct actually be a new looking item?? lol have a great day

Defarb = make gun look like it did when originally produced, i.e. proper shape, finish, hardware, markings/stamps. It should look new. Think museum quality copy.

Scam = make a reproduction antique gun look artificially old for the purpose of passing off a reproduction as an original. These are con-artists.

 

[andy52]

I also remember going to Harper's Ferry about 2004. In their Corps of Discovery display, they had a 1792 contract rifle.

Correct some of the corp were already in the military and had 1792s, some of the civilians ( who were after enlisted) just brought their personal rifles two that did were Joseph Field and Rueben fields brothers from Kentucky and both considered to be the best hunters and shots of the Corp.

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

There is no requirement in the United States on the Federal level for a serial number to be affixed to an "antique firearm" and repros of caplock or flintlock firearms, even if they are made 30 minutes after I post this reply, are all considered "antique". Now as to state level, depending on what you are discussing, the state may want a serial number on the "antique firearm"...I'm thinking New Jersey may want them on cap-n-ball revolvers, and so might New York City, but don't know for sure..., and it might only apply after an injury involving said piece had happened. Meaning possession of such a piece might not be in an of itself a violation.

Serial numbers DO matter if one is buying new, and fills out that "stupid little card" that then registers the item for warranty purposes. It also matters for dating of when the item was made for some manufacturers.

Wile some muskets benefit from extra work, that may not be true for all guns/rifles used by reenactors. For example my Pedersoli Bess was "defarbed" before I bought it, and due to the seller's pictures and the fact that the previous owner allowed some rust to build up..., I got it for the cost of less expensive, well used, unaltered Pedersoli Bess. So the butt plate is retro fitted to be an older style, and the side plate is rounded, and the lock had the engraved date changed to the 1750's. All the barrel markings were removed save for the serial number. So in my case YES the mods would and did add value.

But..., say for instance, normally inexpensive cap-n-ball revolvers..., for discussion lets use Pietta "Confederate Navy" revolvers..., which never really existed, as they look like Colt Navy revolvers, BUT they are in .44 and have brass frames. They were literally the least expensive cap-n-ball revolvers on the market, AND they were also on sale when I bought them. They were part of a magazine article on the lowest possible price for entering Cowboy Action Shooting. In fact the article explored the possibility of the shooter actually buying extra cylinders to reduce loading time at the bench at a match.

So..., If I was to sell the set, for it consists of parts, an "Avenging Angel", and two full sized revolvers, plus nine spare cylinders.
So I could sell them to another CAS shooter..., I could sell them to an ACW reenactor who didn't care that they are fantasy revolvers, as he or she would be very "well heeled" after the purchase..., or I could sell them to a person who likes cap-n-ball revolvers..., or I could split up the set. The only things done to them was the removal of the blue and then a mild browning to make them look well used.... and the one revolver which had the barrel shortened and crowned. Taking off the Pietta factory markings would not make these fantasy revolvers any more valuable, and the antiquing was done for another article. The ONLY way these have ever "increased" in value is due to 25 years of inflation of gun prices, which may, today, allow me to recoup what I paid for them but even that sum does not have the same buying power that it did in 1995, eh?

LD

Dave I can assure you that a permit must be drawn on a cap and ball purchase in N.J. One of the many reasons on the list im getting out of here this year.....