Denatured alcohol for MAP

[Carbon 6]

Carbon 6 G96 for cleaning and oiling

I don't use it for cleaning. but it's great for protecting, and lubricating. doesn't freeze like wd-40.

 

[Archer 756]

slip stick showing age !!

 

[Carbon 6]

I originally started using MAP at the suggestion of the gunsmith who made my first flintlock... but then thought about it and decided that the soap and peroxide weren't likely to add much to the mixture, and both had the potential to cause damage (soap residues and oxidizing effects of peroxide). So now I just use denatured alcohol, which seems to work great. Alcohol dissolves both oils and water soluble residues, so seems to me like the perfect compound, in addition to the fact that it dries quickly.

I wonder -- was MAP thought up by someone who had no knowledge of chemistry, or does the peroxide or soap offer anything (solvent wise) that I'm missing? Soap is just a lipid (i.e. fat/oil) chemically joined with a base (lye), such that either end of the molecule is still soluble in lipids and water. Seems to offer nothing over alcohol in that regard. I can't think of what the peroxide would offer to the mixture, and wonder if it was just a case of someone throwing the kitchen sink at the issue and everyone else just copying them because it works.

Doesn't seem logical to make an assumption or speculation and turn it into an action when it defies the evidence that you yourself admit.

MAP works.

I can't think of what the peroxide would offer to the mixture, and wonder if it was just a case of someone throwing the kitchen sink at the issue and everyone else just copying them because it works.

Sometimes we can't relate to the answer because of our own choices in the world or our lack of experiences.

Hydrogen peroxide has many uses.

 

[Carbon 6]

slip stick showing age !!

Huh ?

Was just saying that G96 is a great product but I don't find it to be a replacement for MAP. To me they are two completely different things.

 

[Twisted_1in66]

I've only used Isopropyl Alcohol also known as rubbing alcohol. I use denatured alcohol in my alcohol lamp to take sets out of bamboo rods because it burns at the lowest temperature of any alcohol. Denatured alcohol is often more expensive and more difficult to find than Isopropyl. I think this question of whether or not to use denatured alcohol was answered years ago by @Stumpkiller. He likes to break things down chemically and explain why the work or don't. Unfortunately, it's been a long time and I don't remember the answer. I've always found it easy to pickup "rubbing alcohol" at any drug store, variety store, walmart, target, or big box store. And it's cheap. I will opt for the 91% alcohol instead f the 70% if it's there because it seems to work a little better than the lower concentration, but either will do.

I should get some more though because I used about half a bottle of it to mix with some Aloe for hand sanitizer when we ran out and there's was none around. Hand sanitizer needs to be a minimum of 60% alcohol to kill Covid-19 so I mixed about 80% of my 91% alcohol in with 20% Aloe and it worked pretty well....but now I have to get more to make another batch of Map. I make it by putting 16-oz. of each into a 48-oz container and mix it up. Since most can be bought in 16-oz. size, it's easy just to dump them all in. Then I carry some in a corked glass bottle in my shooting box that I take to reenactments.

 

[FishDFly]

"doesn't freeze like wd-40."

When it gets cold enough to freeze WD-40, I will not be there nor my equipment.

 

[Carbon 6]

"doesn't freeze like wd-40."

When it gets cold enough to freeze WD-40, I will not be there nor my equipment.

I know, a lot of people feel the same way and I enjoy having the woods or range all to myself.

 

[SDSmlf]

I don't use it for cleaning. but it's great for protecting, and lubricating. doesn't freeze like wd-40.

Where are you using your guns that something freezing at -80°F is an issue? And per the manufacturers, freeze points are about identical. One freezes at -81°F (WD40) and the other at -80°F (G96).

 

[MIOutdoorsman]

I've only used Isopropyl Alcohol also known as rubbing alcohol. I use denatured alcohol in my alcohol lamp to take sets out of bamboo rods because it burns at the lowest temperature of any alcohol. Denatured alcohol is often more expensive and more difficult to find than Isopropyl. I think this question of whether or not to use denatured alcohol was answered years ago by @Stumpkiller. He likes to break things down chemically and explain why the work or don't. Unfortunately, it's been a long time and I don't remember the answer. I've always found it easy to pickup "rubbing alcohol" at any drug store, variety store, walmart, target, or big box store. And it's cheap. I will opt for the 91% alcohol instead f the 70% if it's there because it seems to work a little better than the lower concentration, but either will do.

I should get some more though because I used about half a bottle of it to mix with some Aloe for hand sanitizer when we ran out and there's was none around. Hand sanitizer needs to be a minimum of 60% alcohol to kill Covid-19 so I mixed about 80% of my 91% alcohol in with 20% Aloe and it worked pretty well....but now I have to get more to make another batch of Map. I make it by putting 16-oz. of each into a 48-oz container and mix it up. Since most can be bought in 16-oz. size, it's easy just to dump them all in. Then I carry some in a corked glass bottle in my shooting box that I take to reenactments.

It's this latter use of "rubbing alcohol," hand sanitizer, that has caused me to consider denatured alcohol. I simply cannot find an isopropyl alcohol in my stores locally. The shelves are bare...

 

[Carbon 6]

Where are you using your guns that something freezing at -80°F is an issue? And per the manufacturers, freeze points are about identical. One freezes at -81°F (WD40) and the other at -80°F (G96).

Glad to see WD fixed the freezing issue when they changed the formula. It's been 30 years since I had an issue. I guess data farming has paid off for them. BTW I think their "smart straw" was a fantastic invention.
Also, that's not the same G96 product I use. I use the aerosol, and it's still a better product than the new WD.

 

[Carbon 6]

It's this latter use of "rubbing alcohol," hand sanitizer, that has caused me to consider denatured alcohol. I simply cannot find an isopropyl alcohol in my stores locally. The shelves are bare...

There are other sources for isoproply, Go to the auto parts store and look for HEET in the red bottle. Though this may not help a Texan.
HEET in the yellow bottle is methanol and also works for MAP

You can also use Ethanol. I can guarantee you have some of that.

 

[Archer 756]

WD40 yes does not freez , but the water that it displaces DOES FREEZ WD stances for water displacement

 

[Carbon 6]

I'm guessing that when the higher alcohols or solvents in WD-40 evaporate it becomes susceptible to freezing. I have seen more than one gun freeze up when mercury drops below 15 degrees.
The SDS sheet only considers the product as a whole, and doesn't take into account degradation.
That, or they reformulated it.

 

[user 34300]

Out here in California the covid-phobes have bought up all the rubbing alcohol. The Gumment has banned denatured alcohol, really no kidding. One source that has not been taken away is HEET windshield fluid de-icer. IT is readily available from the auto parts suppliers. IT is 100% methyl alcohol aka wood alcohol. IT should work the same.

 

[Art Caputo]

I originally started using MAP at the suggestion of the gunsmith who made my first flintlock... but then thought about it and decided that the soap and peroxide weren't likely to add much to the mixture, and both had the potential to cause damage (soap residues and oxidizing effects of peroxide). So now I just use denatured alcohol, which seems to work great. Alcohol dissolves both oils and water soluble residues, so seems to me like the perfect compound, in addition to the fact that it dries quickly.

I wonder -- was MAP thought up by someone who had no knowledge of chemistry, or does the peroxide or soap offer anything (solvent wise) that I'm missing? Soap is just a lipid (i.e. fat/oil) chemically joined with a base (lye), such that either end of the molecule is still soluble in lipids and water. Seems to offer nothing over alcohol in that regard. I can't think of what the peroxide would offer to the mixture, and wonder if it was just a case of someone throwing the kitchen sink at the issue and everyone else just copying them because it works.

Interesting. My first reaction many years ago was that the individual that first concocted MAP was a chemist. After years of trying all the usual solvents, messy hot water pumping, etc, etc, which was OK for an easily removable barrel, I always considered cleaning a chore with my pinned barrels. To pour a few ounces of MAP down the barrel after plugging the vent, inverting the barrel a couple of times over a 5 minute period, and then wiping dry After a couple of patches to observe a perfectly clean patch...was a revelation! The liquid poured out of the barrel was not much different in color from the liquid that was poured in. The pH of the spent liquid was near that of water(7, +/- 1 pH unit, tested with a pH test strip) Being used in water purification systems to help activate carbon. Peroxide is depleted to water and oxygen when put in contact with carbon. Used in MAP, the carbon appears to be converted to CO2 which between the two reactions, is the “pssst”(release of gas) when you remove your finger from the end of the barrel after inverting. Where else would the usual black carbon residue go that would turn the liquid dark grey in a soapy “bucket” of water go? I suspect the alcohol and Murphy’s are additional cleaners to help solubilize the other residues. I’m not certain that anyone knows what may be exactly going on with the MAP mixture, but I recon that I have saved myself at least 100 hours of cleaning time over 20 years, and have not noticed even a spec of rust or corrosion using this process. I’d rather be shooting then cleaning!!!

 

[David Veale]

H2O2 dissolving carbon -- that would make sense, I think. Elemental carbon (which I would guess is one of the products of blackpowder combustion) is decidedly difficult to dissolve! I did notice an orange cast to some patches while cleaning with map after it had set for a few minutes, which is why I grew concerned about it's oxidizing qualities. In using straight denatured alcohol, I've had no such issues... but perhaps there is more carbon remaining in my barrel without the peroxide.

 

[user 34300]

The carbon is harmless. The corrosive/hygroscopic salts are a problem. Those dissolve in water. Normal cleaning will do all that is needed. If you must get every spec of carbon try Seafoam engine treatment. IT removes carbon quickly.

 

[wulf1928]

Hello friends. I’m hoping to make a batch of “MAP” for swabbing between shots, and general cleaning. I have the Murphy’s oil soap and the Peroxide, but can’t find Alcohol at my local stores. It’s one of those things that’s flying off the shelves due to COVID.

I DO HAVE denatured alcohol that I purchased for wood working. Is this an acceptable substitute for rubbing alcohol??View attachment 40079

 

[wulf1928]

You don't have to "wipe between shots". All you have to do is to shove the batched ball down the barrel with a wet patch on the rod. So you are wiping the barrel "before" a shot and not after. Works. Try it.

 

[longcruise]

You don't have to "wipe between shots". All you have to do is to shove the batched ball down the barrel with a wet patch on the rod. So you are wiping the barrel "before" a shot and not after. Works. Try it.

I do that often when trail walking or plinking but if the gun will remain loaded such as in a hunting scenario one needs to be careful of what is left in the bore, such as spit or water based stuff.