designing sideplates

[Vaino]

One of the most enjoyable and easy tasks of building a LR, is the sideplate. The only times I've used purchased sideplates are w/ parts sets that have the sideplate already inlet. Before buying the first Chambers' parts set, I asked Jim if NOT inletting the sideplate was possible. He said he could supply that but then the warranty would be void. So....I bought the "kit" and found out that the premarked holes in the sideplate and the inlet caused RR interference w/ the front lockbolt. If the front lockbolt location wasn't according to the "Premark", the bolt head location looked off center.

Making a sideplate that looks like it belongs in the panel is easy and here's how I do it. Of course my way isn't the only way, but it does work.

After the lockbolt holes are drilled, a 1/8" thick brass plate is clamped to the sideplate panel and the same drills have a "centerpunch" ground on the shank end. The 2 prickpunches are made using the 2 lockbolt holes.

The portion of the sideplate between the rear lockbolt hole and the front lockbolt hole is predetermined, but the rear portion of the sideplate should have the sideplate "tail" centered w/ the beavertail point of the lock panel. To accomplish this is easy and just takes a few sketches and it's done....always referring back to the rear lockbolt hole.

Another important feature of a sideplate is how well its long , bottom edge coincides w/ the bottom contour of the sideplate panel. Of course this is done in conjunction w/ the design for centering the sideplate "tail".

Some sideplates of the original builders didn't fit well w/ the panel and were more or less a utilitarian washer for 2 bolts....but, why not make if both a "washer" and an aesthetic feature?

Like I said...there are no doubt other ways to make an aesthetically pleasing sideplate that looks like it belongs...the above is just one way.....Fred

 

[frogwalking]

I have seen original rifles with the lock bolts, particularly the front one crooked. I thought it was carelessness. I learned the hard way, by putting the front lock bolt through the ramrod hole, that their crooked front lock bolt was very much intentional. While I am just a hobby builder, and not in the same class with the good builders, I also make my own sideplates. I often copy one I have seen that I like, and that is reasonable for the style rifle I am building. I do locate the ramrod hole and calculate where the hole in the sideplate needs to be on the off side of the stock in order to miss it. (This rifle had the ramrod hole almost touching the barrel. Therefore the front lock bolt had to be angled up to hit that small web, putting it a little high on the off side.) I drill the holes in the stock and lock, and tap the lock. Now I drill a piece of the desired metal to fit on both bolts, then start drawing how I want the sideplate to look, and to fit the stock. Here is a photo of a recent one I made . I had to reduce the height of the sideplate at rear bolt in relation to the front one to make the plate look right, but unless one looks very closely, you won't notice the difference from the copied plate. I counterdrill the area under the angled sideplate bolt head with a piloted counterdrill so the angled bolt fits flat with the plate. I am not sure that is PC, but it looks better than leaving the bolt head not fitting.



Sorry, no engraving.

 

[Obi-Wan Cannoli]

I cut a side plate out for my current build, mainly because I messed up the one I bought, and already had a sheet of brass of proper gauge. It turned out to be a happy accident as it makes it look a lot less cookie cutter. :grin:


Fred, I really wish you would reconsider your desire to make a book. You always present this forum with a wealth of knowledge and experience, and I wish I could get my greedy little hands on it. :hmm: ... :grin:...There are a ton of ways of publishing now a days, you can even sell it through amazon self published as a digital download worst case scenario?

Thank you. :hatsoff:

 

[Vaino]

Nice looking sideplate and most were not engraved.

Obi-wan....there are many more skilled builders out there than me. These guys are "real" artists and builders.

Below is a sideplate w/ a pointed tail that lines up w/ the beavertail end of the panel.....Fred

 

[excess650]

Nice looking sideplate and most were not engraved.

Obi-wan....there are many more skilled builders out there than me. These guys are "real" artists and builders.

Below is a sideplate w/ a pointed tail that lines up w/ the beavertail end of the panel.....Fred

Fred,
I've looked at quite a few originial rifles, and YOUR pictured sideplate is probably the most graceful that I've seen.

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

I truly like all of your designs. I think they are simply magnificent. :thumbsup:

 

[Vaino]

Some might think that the location of the 2 bolt holes in the lockplate are planned for a nice looking sideplate.....they're not. Wherever the 2 holes can be squeezed in is where they end up and due to very thin "webs" between the bbl inlet and the RR hole, the holes require a precision layout and drilling. Somehow everything comes out.

The sideplate panel is done before the sideplate is made....otherwise how do you make the sideplate so that it looks pleasing and has a location that looks like the sideplate belongs? The sideplate panel outline is transferred from the lock panel using the lockbolt holes as reference points. The lockplate and sideplate panels don't have to be precisely the same....because one doesn't look at both simultaneously for comparison.

Thanks for the kind words,...but it's really not that difficult, just takes time for a layout.....Fred

 

[Artificer]

VERY interesting thread, Fred. Thank you.

Gus

 

[Dane]

The only reason lock bolts do not sit flat on the side plate, is that the side plate side is NOT perpendicular to your drill press table. This is most common on a precarve.
If you figure out your bolt placement on your lock, then drill through with the side plate side to your drill press table, your bolt heads will come out flat.
Then make your side plate and everything will line up nicely.
Hope that helps.

 

[Artificer]

Doesn't that depend on whether the side panel flats are parallel to each other?

For some to many guns with swamped barrels, the side panels were tapered from back down to the front to give a more pleasing shape and sort of go along with the taper of the barrel. Not sure how one could have gotten the screw heads to lay flat against the sideplate like that, unless the underside of the screw heads were not perpendicular to the shaft of the bolt? I've noticed this on some original lock plate screws, BTW, but I don't know how common it was overall.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

BTW on many military muskets and some smoothbore guns, the original assemblers used a piloted flat cutter to cut two round and flat faces in the side piece that were perpendicular to the lock plate screw holes. This so the heads of the lock plate screws would snug up correctly to the side plate over those round/flat cut surfaces.

I don't remember seeing this much or at all on original 18th century Long Rifles, though other forum members may have different experience than mine.

Gus

 

[Vaino]

I drill the lockbolt holes w/ the bore parallel w/ the drill press table and although a flush fitting bolt head is nicer, I don't bother w/ that. After a few bolt in and outs, the circular marks on the sideplate get bigger....and besides, lockbolts shouldn't be tightened very much. Thought about making a "facing tool" so the heads would fit flush, but never did.....Fred

 

[ZUG]

I like this one flehto -- I think I will "steal the design -- thanks :thumbsup: .

 

[ZUG]

Nice looking sideplate and most were not engraved.

Obi-wan....there are many more skilled builders out there than me. These guys are "real" artists and builders.

Below is a sideplate w/ a pointed tail that lines up w/ the beavertail end of the panel.....Fred

This one

 

[Vaino]

That's a very popular Bucks County LR design. Most of the BC LRs I build have a similar design.....Fred

 

[Onojutta]

Fred, thanks for sharing. Do you cut out the sideplate patterns with a jewelers saw, bandsaw, or something else?

 

[Artificer]

I drill the lockbolt holes w/ the bore parallel w/ the drill press table and although a flush fitting bolt head is nicer, I don't bother w/ that. After a few bolt in and outs, the circular marks on the sideplate get bigger....and besides, lockbolts shouldn't be tightened very much. Thought about making a "facing tool" so the heads would fit flush, but never did.....Fred

Fred,

I have never really thought about it before this discussion, but it finally occurred to me that the heads on most side plate bolts are much bigger than they really need to be. With that much surface area of the larger heads, there would be plenty of contact surface even if a lot of the head surface did not contact the side plate.

Gus

 

[Vaino]

Seeing the brass plate used for sideplates is 1/8" thick, I use a hacksaw to remove most of the brass and then use a rasp to rough w/in .01 of the layout line. Then a regular mill file does the rest along w/ various "needle" files to get into the corners and radii.

I don't use a jeweler's saw that much even for Pbox parts that are only .05-.060 thick....a hacksaw again is used w/ the above stated tools. I mainly use a jeweler's saw for components that can't be clamped in a vise and are hand held. Mostly fragile parts.

Artificer.....I usually make the bolt heads smaller w/ an oval head. Yes...partial contact is made by the underside of the bolt head but it does "wear" in and lockbolts don't have to be tightened that much. The inlet does most of the work.....Fred

 

[B.Habermehl]

I usually take a piece of shirt cardboard and attach it using the lock bolts. Cut it to match the side plate side of the lock panel. Now I do my drawing and design on it to make my side plate. Cut it out with scissors, and you have a template for your sideplate. It is much easier for me to get a side plate that really looks like it belongs there this way. BJH

 

[Vaino]

Yes....your way is an excellent way of doing it....I actually treat the sideplate as 2 separate sections...one section is from the rear bolt to the front bolt and the other section is from the rear bolt back to the beavertail point of the sideplate panel. I draw the design on paper, glue it to the brass and cut out the design w/ a hacksaw. Probably other builders have their way of doing it and if the criteria that I and some others specified are satisfied, a proper sideplate that "belongs" is the result. Actually...the sideplate is very easy to make....Fred