designing sideplates

[Dane]

Arti,
No, it doesn't matter at all. If the off side panel is flat against the drill press table, the screw heads will be flat against the side plate, regardless.
The tapped holes in the lock plate will be at a slight angle, but you'll never know.
Think about it.

 

[Artificer]

Arti,
No, it doesn't matter at all. If the off side panel is flat against the drill press table, the screw heads will be flat against the side plate, regardless.
The tapped holes in the lock plate will be at a slight angle, but you'll never know.
Think about it.

Good point and I did not explain what I meant very well because I left out something important I was thinking about, but did not mention. My fault.

When the lock panel and side plate panel are parallel, you normally drill and tap the lock plate for the lockplate screws at 90 degrees and perpendicular to the lock plate. Then the underside of the heads will contact most of the side plate around the circumference of the heads, because the bottom of the heads are perpendicular to the shaft of the bolt.

However, if the side panels are both tapered from the rear to the front when looking down from the top of the barrel, then you don't want the lockplate holes and threads perpendicular to the lockplate. This because the underside of the lockplate bolt heads would then be at an angle to the sideplate.

Of course if you used a piloted facing tool on the sideplate and cut a round area that would be perpendicular to the lockplate bolt shaft, then the underside of the lockplate bolt heads would be in agreement with the angle of the sideplate.

Gus

 

[Captjoel]

Trying to get a "store bought" side plate to fit properly on a build is to much work for the likes of me! Been there and done that and will never do it again. I have seen a lot of long rifle's out on the market that looked to be very well made, until a picture of the side plate was presented. Plates where the bolts are off center or the entire plate is not positioned where it "flows" with the contour of the stock. This, to me is a big eye sore and puts an otherwise nice gun into the pile of guns I would not want to own. I can also see that with some builds, it is easier to make two separate plates or even simple washers for each bolt, fancy (like Jacob Kuntz) or plain, depending on the style of rifle. I show a picture of my rendition of a side plate for my Bucks County rifle. I used a fairly thin piece of antique brass for the plate, inletted flush and tacked to remain permanently attached. Not nearly as fine as Fred's great workmanship, but it satisfied my tastes and meager abilities.

 

[Vaino]

Nice LR and sideplate. You brought up an excellent point....if a sideplate is bought separately and is not a part of a parts set, the result can be the same as the "original builders" using what they had on hand....whether or not it was suitable.

I'm just tossing some thoughts out there and hopefully some of the more knowledgeable members will render their thoughts.

Many "original builders" made their sideplates a thing of beauty, but some didn't and overall not many sideplates were engraved....was it because it was considered a utility "2 hole washer"? Most builders today produce LRs w/ beautiful sideplates possibly due to a differing opinion as to their dual purpose..

Again...I'm far from being an expert on building LRs, but do have some opinions....rightly or wrongly.....Fred

 

[Staggerwing]

very nice work, Fred! Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

 

[Captjoel]

Nice LR and sideplate. You brought up an excellent point....if a sideplate is bought separately and is not a part of a parts set, the result can be the same as the "original builders" using what they had on hand....whether or not it was suitable.

I'm just tossing some thoughts out there and hopefully some of the more knowledgeable members will render their thoughts.

Many "original builders" made their sideplates a thing of beauty, but some didn't and overall not many sideplates were engraved....was it because it was considered a utility "2 hole washer"? Most builders today produce LRs w/ beautiful sideplates possibly due to a differing opinion as to their dual purpose..

Again...I'm far from being an expert on building LRs, but do have some opinions....rightly or wrongly.....Fred

No "expert" here either Fred. I can only share with you my thoughts based on what I have seen on many original Kentucky longrifles. IMO, side plate designs were taught from master to apprentice during the late 18th century into the first 20 years or so of the early 19th century. My opinion applies to areas of gun building in Pennsylvania. Many of these designs were unique to specific geographical areas we refer to as schools. When it comes to plain unadorned (no engraving) plates vs fancy plates with engraving, specific areas and time frames do come into the picture quite relevantly. You will very very rarely see engraving on side plates from the Lehigh Valley, Berks County, Bucks County, and even the earlier made pieces from Lancaster Co. There are always exceptions when it comes to longrifles and there of coarse were a few specific gunsmiths who liked to engrave their side plates. This also helps to place attributions upon unsigned rifles when comparing them to signed specimens. You will find the fancier engraved work on rifles made in York Co., Adams Co., Dauphin Co, Lancaster Co., and Western Pennsylvania. Mostly post 1800 and beyond into the early years of the 19th century. I will admit that I like all of the styles and have great respect for the history that they represent. I especially enjoy the artistic details of the fancy stuff. All of the designs cut into the brass all those years ago, all done by natural lighting or candle light. Many of the early gun builders were quite gifted artisans. Anyway, this long winded post will end with a few photos of side plates I have had the pleasure of seeing first hand. For the new inexperienced gun builder to the more advanced, I can only say that the secret to good success in your work is in the planning. Take your time and put a lot of thought into the rifle's side plate before you start cutting in!

 

[Captjoel]

 

[Captjoel]

From top to bottom: #1)John Shell Dauphin Co PA #2) Abraham Schweitzer Chambersburg PA #3) Frederick Sell Littlestown PA #4) "JD" Thought to be Jacob Deemer Bucks Co PA #5) A.B. Smith Abia Butler Smith Clinton, Allegany Co PA

 

[Vaino]

Thanks for the info and the excellent pix. Noticed that all the SPs are flush mounted....does this denote later builders? All except one are engraved. From looking through many reference books, not many early LRs had engraved SPs?

All the pictured SPs look like they "belong" in the sideplate panel and all are pretty much different in design.....Thanks again....Fred

 

[excess650]

I was looking at a couple of Whisker's books last night, specifically Lancaster and York County rifles. It appeared that more than half of each "schools" pictured were engraved, and some of them were early as witnessed by the J Schreit 1761 rifle.

MOST of the engraved sideplates appear to be flush mounted.

 

[Captjoel]

Thanks for the info and the excellent pix. Noticed that all the SPs are flush mounted....does this denote later builders? All except one are engraved. From looking through many reference books, not many early LRs had engraved SPs?

All the pictured SPs look like they "belong" in the sideplate panel and all are pretty much different in design.....Thanks again....Fred

Yes Fred, all SP's pictured are from rifles that were made post 1800. The Shell and Smith rifle's ca.1840, The Sell, J.D., and the Schweitzer ca. 1820 or a tad earlier. I would agree that SP's on most pre 1800 built longrifle's were unengraved and were not flush mounted. Most were somewhat thicker brass and many had beveled edges.
Here pictured is one more style from an original Lehigh Valley rifle ca.1800 attributed to John or Jacob Snyder. Converted to percussion.

 

[Ames]

Love the screw heads on this one.