Deticated Conical Rifle

[Wildpony]

I think I want to put together a deticated conical muzzle loader in .54 caliber to use next deer season. I live in Texas where deer are big and like the extra nock down power of the heavier bullets Actually I just like the big hole it makes and power of the heavier bullet.

At any rate I was thinking of putting together a Lyman Great Plains Hunter kit with 1-32 twist but from reading this forum I have never been able to determine what was the optimal twist rate for pure led conicals. Also, I already cast bullets for my Zouave and want to be able to cast for this rifle if I decide to build it.

If any of you guys can tell me; what is the best twist for use with bore sized lead conical bullets? What bullet moulds you have had success with, and do you know of any other good sources of authorship on this particular subject?

Also if any of you have any "deticated conical rifles" Id sure love to see pictures of them if you want to share. Even a couple pictures of some of the groups you have shot with them would be nice, just to build my confidence.

 

[jtmattison]

I have a .54 Great Plains Hunter.
It shoots just about every conical I have tried with outstanding accuracy.
I have shot:
380 grain Lee REAL
450 grain Lyman Plains Bullet
430 grain Maxi-Ball
These I hand cast.

I have also shot:
425 grain Hornady Plains Bullet
Numerous .45 caliber bullet/sabot combos.

Everything has shot 1-2 inch groups at 50 yards with buckhorn sights.

I think if you get a GPH you will be satisfied with it's performance.

HD

 

[BrownBear]

I've got one of those unmentionable "muzzleloaders" in 54, as well as the GPR & GPH. The first one is really light and has a 22-24" barrel. It might be considered a "dedicated" conical rifle, but it's also a dirty rotten monster to shoot with heavy loads. Kicks more than my 458 Winnie and getting close to my 460 Wby.

The Lyman on the other hand, with it's longer barrel and lots more weight is a pleasure to shoot. You still know you corked off a heavy load, but you won't be comparing the recoil to any African bolt guns.

And best of all, the Lyman is a lot easier to find good loads for, and it's best are even better than the other one.

Go with the Lyman GPH. If you get interested in PRB's you can also add the slow twist barrel.

 

[Cruzatte]

I think I want to put together a deticated conical muzzle loader in .54 caliber to use next deer season.

I never heard of a deticated rifle. What's that?

Cruzatte

 

[Wildpony]

The nature and spirit of my post is to specifically inquire upon the charachteristics of a rifle expressly "deticated":grin: to the accurate projectoin of conical rather than pached round ball bullets.

Semantics :yakyak:

 

[Wildpony]

What is the make of the lighter rifle you mentioned?

I have seen a Jegar kit sold by Dixie Gun Works that advertises a 1-26 twist barrel. Would you say that is too quick.

Just trying to get an idea for what works and what doesnt.

Also do you know if Lyman makes a .54 GP Hunter in flintlock. It isnt a real necessity but I like the idea of being less organizationaly dependent i.e. not having to buy caps. Immaterial really but it is what caught my eye about the Jegar.

 

[captaincaveman]

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000156031149

Josh

 

[Wildpony]

I like that peep sight option. :thumbsup:

 

[arcticap]

Among other things, this page mentions the Greenhill Formula:

Bullet Stabilization An elongated bullet flying through the air without spinning will be unstable and inaccurate. The longer the bullet is in relation to its diameter, the more spin is required to stabilize it. How much spin is required? This relationship is expressed in the Greenhill formula....

The formula can also provide us with the maximum bullet length which can be stabilized by a given barrel twist.....

[url] http://members.aye.net/~bspen/math.html[/url]

Inserting the numbers for a .54 caliber barrel with a 1 in 32" twist into the simplified formula indicates that barrel will stabilize a bullet that's 1.366875 inches long, or shorter.

In comparison, Green Mountain has a Long Range Hunter replacement barrel with a 1 in 28" twist in .50 & .54 caliber. The same formula indicates that the .54 barrel would stabilize a bullet that's 1.562142 inches long, or shorter.
[url] http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/catalog.aspx?catid=1InchLongRangeHunter[/url]

 

[BrownBear]

Like I said, it's one of those things from "the dark side." It's an older Knight.

If no one has told you yet, in most guns lead conicals shoot a whole bunch better with a lubed felt wad between the powder and the base of the bullet. I just buy the prelubed ones, but some folks around here make their own.

 

[renovato]

The Lyman 1:32 twist is just about optimal for lead conicals. The faster 1:28 twists are generally best for sabots.

 

[xxgrampa]

greetings wild pony,

got a .54 tc renegade perc. that will put 5 shots at a 100yrds that you can cover with your hand. once in a while, if i am up to doing my part :grin:

..ttfn..grampa..

PS..with maxi-balls...

 

[DanChamberlain]

I also have a .54 Renegade with 1 in 48" twist. It shoots cloverleaf groups with conicals at 50 yards. Something in the 1 in 32" range would be great I'd think.

Dan

 

[Headhunter]

Cruzatte,

A "Deticated Rifle" is one that does not miss, or misses ONLY when no one can see.

Merely shooting down through the woods will fill the tag in your pocket with a fine specimen.

The Mountain Men highly prized these rifles and were much sought after.

Here is what one looks like. It is a Deticated PRB Rifle.

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Headhunter

 

[RonT]

After the May Civil War Show in nearby Mansfield, Ohia, I plan on having a "dedicated", "can't beat cubic inches",deer blaster.....most likely a 2 band 1858 Pattern Enfied. :haha:
R

 

[Wildpony]

Headhunter, Thats a nice rifle. The butplate looks like a Lyman but it looks to have a full length stock. Also the sideplate appears to have two screws. If so that would rule out it being a GPR I think. What is she?

 

[Headhunter]

Wildpony,

I PM'd you some details, but for the rest of the crowd, I can state that such a "Deticated Rifle" can only be built when the Hunters Moon is at Max Ordinate. Creating only one or two days to build. That makes building time stretch out to Years. Waiting for the moon to be just right.

By doing so, the rifle will have a hunters spirit and will not miss.

Headunter

 

[navaman]

i'd like to chime in with a question. i have a t/c WMC with a 1:20 twist and it took awhile to figure out that ONLY 370 maxi-balls shoot accurately out of this barrel. so that's the only thing that will be shot out of it. now i have found a barrel for that carbine that is a 1:66 twist for roundballs. would you say i have one dedicated carbine or would you say i have two ?
:winking: just joshing, guys.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Is " Deticated " simply a misspelling of the word,

" Dedicated ",

as in, I want to DEDICATE this gun to a particular function, and nothing else?

Otherwise, I have not the foggiest of clues what this topic is asking about. :hmm:

As for finding the right concical for a particular rifle, you can't get any help here unless you tell us what the Rate Of Twist is in that particular gun! That and the length of your barrel is going to control how accurate any bullet will be when fired.

The other reason that most conicals don't shoot well in most ML rifles is the depth of rifling that is usually put in the ML barrels. The grooves are so deep, that it takes an extraordinary degree of luck to find a base wad to protect the conical from blow by gases that escape past the bullet in the deep grooves.

If I was going to " DEDICATE " A BARREL to conical use, only, It would probably be no larger in diameter than .45 caliber, it would have .003" deep grooves, and a Rate of Twist of 1:22, so that it would shoot 300 grain bullets well, and the occasional 400 grainer, too. I have a couple of .45-70 rifles that shoot very accurately, so I don't want or need to try to duplicate them in a ML rifle. :winking:

 

[Headhunter]

"Deticated Rifle" Is one that don't miss. And Persumeabiluy, one that has one purpose or funkshun.

"Dedicated Rifle" ...Well, I havent't the foggiest.

Headhunter