Did I break my revolver?

[WolfSpring]

First and foremost had a little to drink so if my English is off I apologize. Second I'm lazy so my terminology will be way off.

So I shot my 1851 Navy clone(pietta if it matters) yesterday for the first time, probably shot 8 shots had an issue with the hammer jamming up so I figured I got a cap in there so I put it down. Went to clean it today and I took the stake pin out just fine but the barrel would not come off at all. I used a rubber mallet and tapped the handle and it came off with two good whacks. Next I tried to remove the cylinder it would not go past the point the stake pin goes in it just jams up. My first thought was that it got gunked up real good so I went in and scrubbed it with some dish soap and water and still it jammed right there. I ran my finger and it does have a little bit of a lip on it which I am not sure if it was there or not before. At this point I stopped everything I was doing scrubbed everything up as best I could with dish soap and water.

Things I assume:

I'm pretty sure it's not a brass framed model. Everything except the strap on the handle looks blued and where blueing is rubbing off it is black or greyish black EXCEPT right near the brass strapping, it looks brass under the blue. Maybe it is Brass and I just f-ed it up? I used approx 18 grains of pyrodex with each shot. I say approx because I used a flask and before I went out I filled the nipple of the flask and weighed it at 16-18 grains when it is full. If I did expand a brass frame I assume I am out $100 bucks right? If I did not what are the fixes or thoughts on this? I will try to get pictures tomorrow.

Thanks

 

[WolfSpring]

Ok so I tried putting the barrel back on the post and it will not even begin to go on. I believe the end of the post where the wedge goes expanded, is this normal at all? I realize it's one piece connected to the rest of the gun. I have thought of two otpions, one clean the gun the best I can force the barrel on it and never use it again or look for that particular part which will probably cost more than $100 which is how much I paid for the whole gun.

 

Ok so I tried putting the barrel back on the post and it will not even begin to go on.

Have a couple more drinks and keep trying. :thumbsup:

 

[Robert an saa fan]

Thoughts:

1. Is this a revolver you bought used?

2. If new or unfired, eight shots of the light load you used should not have damaged the 1851 Navy even if it has a brass frame.

3. You may have a stuck cylinder locking bolt; stuck in the up or full cocked position and binding the cylinder. The cylinder locking bolt comes up through the frame and locks into one of the six cylinder notches. Does the cylinder rotate? Can you cock the revolver?

If you have some aerosol lubricant or WD40 a binding cylinder might be freed by spraying some through the triggerguard by the trigger so the lube runs into the cylinder locking bolt area. Also, spray some between the cylinder and frame and one the cylinder pin/arbor.

4. Not sure why the barrel will not go back on. Is the wedge fully retracted? Is there any fouling buildup on the cylinder pin/arbor? Day old fouling can be hard to remove.

5. A good video to review for help and terminology to help us help you is by duelist1954 (Mike is a member here):

Part one of two: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qtMkLGdZA4


P.S. If you have had a drink(s) it would be best not to do gunsmithing this evening. Just watch the you tube stuff, look at some of the other you tube videos and maybe at most do some more cleaning/lubrication.

 

[WolfSpring]

Oh yeah no gunsmithing for me. I read something similar to this and apparently I did not explain the problem correctly. The wedge is completely out and the barrel will not go back on. The cylinder is freely moving like it is about to come off then jams up where the wedge would go. Just before the wedge coming form the cylinder it feels as though that whole section with the cut out for the wedge is larger then the rest of the post. so it is in that section my problem exists. I don't see how that physically expanded like that. I cleaned it up best I could to get the gunk out and I tapped the cylinder with a mallet pretty goo and it got stuck so I hit it back down. If I put it in half cock it spins fine everything else is working fine except disassembly/reassembly. Is this something that happens in this area? it is simple physics in my mind one piece of metal is to big for the parts trying to go over it. If this is indeed the problem, would there be harm in sanding it down so that it fits properly? How did I do this in the first place?

 

[Zonie]

First, it doesn't sound like you really cleaned your pistol so dunk the metal area in some oil.

If your lucky that will keep things from rusting.

A cylinder won't turn or pull off of the cylinder arbor unless the hammer is at half cock.


The barrel wedge must be pulled out far enough to disengage from the cylinder arbor before the barrel will come off or be installed.

The next time the barrel doesn't want to come off, put the hammer at half cock. Rotate the cylinder slightly and lower the loading lever until the ram is pressing against the cylinder between the chambers. Pushing the loading lever further down will jack the barrel off of the cylinder arbor.

The cylinder arbor is usually soft steel. It can become buggered up in several ways but the thing to do is to look for "bright spots" or areas which indicate something rubbed it while you were removing the barrel.

If you see small bright areas, lightly file or sand them and then try to install the part again.

At the moment, your gun is not ruined. Just find the little areas where metal is interfering with the other parts and remove the interference.

 

[Robert an saa fan]

WolfSpring, Zonie gave you excellent advice.

On Colt style revolvers I have sometimes had problems with cylinders not sliding forward over the wedge slot. Sometimes cleaning is the fix. Sometimes the fix is some careful metal removal as Zonie noted.

 

[BowerR64]

When i first dug out my dads black powder revolvers I started messing with the little wedges on 2 of his colts the 1860 i had trouble with so ofcorse i got out a hammer. Banging on it like i had a few to many i managed to ding the edge of the cylinder a few times this left little high spots and when i tried to rotate the cylinder it hung up on these little dings.

I went round and round with both of these 2 guns for along time and i finally figured out i had the 2 wedges mixed up

I find the colts way to easy to screw up. They are IMO for an advanced shooter who knows a little bit about not just black powder but how these things work. A new shooter can shoot them but man there are to many things that can go wrong with this model.

The bad part is the brass 1851 colt is the cheapest and i see more first time BP shooters with these.

 

[WolfSpring]

I appreciate the feedback and I am seeing some areas I need to work on. I used water and dish soap and a scrubber to clean the pistol, the same way I did when I bought it. I will agree that cleaning with oil may help. I've got it soaking now. The issue I am having with communication is this:

The wedge came out just fine. I had to force the barrel off. I completely remove the wedge every time I disassemble, not only that every other time a gentle pull would remove the barrel. The hammer/arbor area is not even in play the cylinder is clean away from the spring area that rotates it and it moves freely, spins freely. It just dead stops when it gets to where the wedge was, not the cut outs but just before the cut out it feels as though there is a rise in the metal like a sheath is over the main pole. I will scrub that area down well in the morning and see what happens there.

Thank you again for the feedback it has given me a lot to think about.

 

[azmntman]

Post some photo's, may be some real easy thing one of the guys will spot at first glance. Dont give up, go slow and if possible find a shooter with this model for help!

 

[D Sanders]

Was the stake pin or barrel wedge partially out or not inserted properly when you fired the pistol? If so, the recoil may have put a burr on the cylinder arbor from the loose pin or wedge. That may cause the barrel and cylinder to be difficult if not impossible to remove. Check to see if there is a bur or raised surface on the forward end of the elongated slot on the arbor. Check the inside of the hole and slot in the barrel for the same damage. If there is a raised area there, you might try lightly stoning or filing the arbor just enough to bring that surface back to normal. I found this out the hard way also. Hope this helps. :thumbsup:

HH 60

 

[Don]

I have had the same issue with my Pietta revolvers. The mild steels they use will develop burs easily. The slot in the arbor post is probably burred. I fixed mine by careful filing of that area. It may happen again the next time you shoot it but don't panic just repeat the cleaning and filing. Good luck.

Don

 

[necchi]

Was the stake pin or barrel wedge partially out or not inserted properly when you fired the pistol? If so, the recoil may have put a burr on the cylinder arbor

The mild steels they use will develop burs easily. The slot in the arbor post is probably burred.

Bingo!
Maybe not a "burr" per say but even a slight bulge,,

Don't feel bad or silly, these things do have a learning curve. There's even a "flip of the wrist" maneuver when cocking that helps prevent the cap jam you had,,
We all had to start someware and learn the tricks of these things.
Once you get it down it's a blast to be shooting the old style revolvers, :wink:

p.s. Don't be afraid to learn how to fully disassemble the revolver, just use proper fitting screw drivers and no need for gorilla strength.

 

[WolfSpring]

RIP... Well I soaked it over night then I took a brush and hit it real good and used a cleaning head and did the best I could got everything I could clean on it. The cylinder spun just find on the post and it acted like it was going to slide off. Then got stuck and would not move at all. I let it soak again and no luck so I tapped it with a rubber mallet and the post/arbor broke off the frame... I am thinking this thing just wasn't meant to be. It was only $100 but it got me into this. I've still got a Ruger to shoot and will probably pick up another navy down the road. This thing was a rust bucket when I got it whoever had it before didn't care for it at all. I probably just got the after affects of their carelessness and shooting it was the last stress it could take. Thank you all for the help. I think I'll get it off the post sand it down a little JB weld the post back on and turn it into a test gun, no shooting obviously cause it'd just blow the barrel off. But I could use it for testing caps. and parts.

 

[WolfSpring]

So I popped the post out the opposite way now that it's broken off and after some playing around trying to put it back on. Somewhere in the middle of the cylinder there is either a bur or some expansion meeting up with the expansion of the post. The post will not go back into the barrel either so I think the two problems together and the fact I could not have gotten into the cylinder to do anything caused the overall problem. I guess using a mallet was a horrible idea in hindsight I figured a good tap would put it past the problem but it made it worse. Lessons learned. Worst part is I have a mold for .375 balls still so that means maybe at a later date I'll buy another Navy revolver, I'll get it new or get a kit next time.

 

[54ball]

Did I break my revolver?

yes

 

[necchi]

Did I break my revolver?

yes

:thumbsup:

 

[Don]

Sorry to hear your revolver is just a parts source now. Oh well, at least you didn't pay a whole lot for it.

Don

 

[WolfSpring]

Did I break my revolver?

yes

Best answer EVER lol

 

[AZbpBurner]

Check with VTI gunparts. They should have a replacement arbor.

Or else, PM me and I'll give you a revolver graveyard address to send it to :idunno: - I could just as easily spend more than its' worth to "maybe" get it to function ...