Did I break my revolver?

Is this the end of the retaining pin?

I do believe that is the retaining pin. After removing all other frame parts, drown the frame in liquid wrench or kerosene overnight, then carefully using a drift punch, the pin should come out.

From the looks of the break, I suspect that the arbor was over hardened. Making it as fragile as glass.

Do not use VTI for parts, they are over priced and ignore customers directions. This is based on my past experience with ordering from them.

 

[CaptainKirk]

Indeed, that is the pin. You should be able to tap it out using a pin punch as viewed in your photo.

 

[WolfSpring]

So I got the Arbor today and first put the cylinder on it moved smoothly with no problems what so ever. Threaded into the receiver and put the front on to gauge what it going on, it looks like I need to file some from the Tip of the Arbor as it is about 1/8-1/4 inch longer than the old one and there is a gap at the two base pins, I will wait till this weekend to do this as I have had a long day and I don't want to do something wrong lol. Will post some pics on my work but it looks like I may be shooting this again shortly, thank you all for walking me through this thus far, any advice on shaving this down? Gentle grinder? Dremel? Or just a hand file and sand paper?

 

[Zonie]

If it were mine, I would stick with a hand file even though a lot of filing is going to be needed.

By the time I got down to the right length, I would be pretty good at filing and keeping the filed surface square with the arbor.

About the length.

The original guns arbor was set up to bottom out in the hole in the barrel just when the lower lug was touching the front of the receiver where the two pins are. (Most of the reproductions cut the arbor too short so driving the barrel wedge in results in the barrel being canted upward).

If the length of the arbor is set up like it should be, the wedge may not protrude very far out of the right side of the barrel slot but that's ok. It doesn't need to stick out more than a little bit and that bent end on the wedge spring is not intended to "grab" the right side of the barrel. It is intended to grab the screw on the left side when the wedge is partially removed from the barrel.

Happy filing. Just remember: Go slow. Sneak up on the final location. You'll do fine.

 

[WolfSpring]

Thanks for that advice, I figured a good file would be the way, I have gotten pretty decent at filing, I impression locks as a hobby and it takes a keen eye and patience to do that right.

 

[Leatherbark]

With the cylinder off the gun. Attach the barrel to the cylinder pin sideways. When it is bottomed out correctly you can twist the barrel over to the frame and the bottom of the barrel will line up perfect with the frame bottom right before it bumps up against one of those small pins. If it contacts the frame bottom first before bumping up against the small pins, the cylinder pin is too short.

Bob

 

[WolfSpring]

I did this and filed it down till it hit the pins first without hitting the frame and it is close to flush and the wedge goes through. My problems I noticed is my cylinder moves slightly forward and back about 1/8 inch, is this an issue? No filing will help this and the wedge is already all the way through and anymore filing will actually induce more play with the barrell. There is no pin notch in the threads of my arbor... This bothers me as I am not skilled enough to gut a grove in them for the retaining pin without messing up the threads. Can I just put some locktite on the threads assemble the revolver so that it is lined up and let it dry? Maybe some plumbers tape? Or should I find someone to cut the grove in the threads or attempt it myself? Everything else looks great and now my cylinder spins a little more freely in the half cock where as before it barely moved I can "spin" it now before I could only push and move it. Is this how it is supposed to be?.

Thank you guys so much. I am actually kind of glad this happened it has made my knowledge of my own revolver a little more intimate and I am more warry of what I am doing.

 

[WolfSpring]

actually after playing a little I DO NOT like the 1/8 play in the cylinder it is impossible to get a good safety on this now I can put the notch in right and it just rotates out.

 

[Billnpatti]

It sounds to me as if someone has pounded on the end of the cylinder pin in an attempt to disassemble the revolver. Doing this can possibly cause the pin to expand right at the wedge cut. Depending on how much the pin is expanded, you can sometimes work it down with emery cloth or a fine mill bastard file. If you use a file, go slowly and carefully. It would be best to have a caliper set to the correct diameter for the pin and then use it frequently to feel the pin as you work on it to be sure that you work it down to the correct diameter. Stop when you get down to a few thousandths larger than the finished size. Then use a very fine emery cloth to polish the pin the last few thousandths to get it polished smooth and to the correct diameter.

For future information, do not pound on the end of this cylinder pin to disassemble your revolver. Also, do not be afraid to follow the disassembling and reassembling instructions in the video that was previously recommended. You do not need to be a gunsmith to completely disassemble and reassemble your revolver. No special tools other than a proper screwdriver is needed and no special skills other than just the knowledge contained in the two videos. I am all thumbs and if I can do it, anyone can do it.

 

[WolfSpring]

I am confused... I just got a brand new arbor and filed the end down so that the two pins on the base are flush with the barrel holes and it is, the wedge fits, my new problem is there is to much play in my cylinder, everything works fine there is just a 1/8 gap between my cylinder and the barrel and there is nothing more I can do to close that gap as the wedge is not making contact with the front of the arbor to push the barrel back anymore. I see where I "could" file some of the arbor at the base of the threads and over tighten a bit but I'm not sure that's a good idea. Everything else is fine except for this gap, it will not allow the weapon to notch in the safety reliably, BUT is it safe to shoot with that gap? If so I guess I can deal without the safety.

 

[Zonie]

It sounds to me like you don't have the arbor screwed all the way into the receiver.

Also, I'm somewhat confused by your saying the pins on the base are flush with the barrel holes.

The two pins should be completely inside the two holes with the barrel tight against the frame.

Maybe that's what your saying but I somehow see in my minds eye the barrel bottomed out on the arbor, the wedge installed and the lower part of the barrel just touching the tops of the two pins.

That would explain why the cylinder has 1/8" of fore/aft play.

If my minds eye is seeing things correctly, you need to screw the arbor into the frame at least another two turns.
If you do, I suspect the arbor will be as tight as a mosquito butt stretched over a rainbarrel.

If it isn't, buy a small vile of the RED Lock-Tite thread locking compound.
Remove the arbor and apply a few drops onto the threads and then screw it back in place.

This Lock-Tite compound stays fluid until the threads are tightened. That activates it and it will set up in a few minutes.

Be sure things are put together like they should be. The RED compound is for permanent installations and once hardened, temperatures over 350 degrees F are needed to break it loose.

 

[Leatherbark]

If the barrel frame at the rear and the bottom is touching the revolver frame where the two small pins are where in the devil is the 1/8 inch of play in the cylinder coming from? This is fixed dimension only changed by hammering the wedge in too tight.

Take the barrel off. Install the cylinder on the pin. Put the barrel on offset 90 degrees. The barrel cylinder gap should be minimal if any and should be close when put on correctly and the little pins have disappeared and the barrel and frame are mated up flush.

I have seen replicas with the little keeper pin put in from the top via a hole drilled down through the curved portion where the hammer rests and through the side cylinder pin. But in your case you might take a small Allen wrench and saw off a piece that will fit tight into the keeper half/hole and drive it in and let it swage into the threads of the cylinder pin to lock things in place.

Bob

 

[Billnpatti]

That 1/8 inch of fore and aft play tells me that you have a brass frame that has been stretched by heavy loads. These brass frames are subject to being stretched if you use overly heavy loads in them. I am not a gunsmith so I can't tell you if there is a fix for this problem but even if there is, it will likely cost you more than the gun is worth to fix it. I am afraid that you have a wall hanger and not a shooter. But, I could be wrong. Maybe someone else can give you a better answer.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Like Zonie, I'm not sure my mental picture is exactly what you're experiencing. Could you post a couple pictures showing the assembled revolver from the side so we can see how things are setting up?

 

[WolfSpring]

As you can see there is a gap and the wedge is completely through. If I were to file anymore it would not do me any good. I am not 100% sure but from my understanding this is a steel frame, a magnet sticks to it. There is Brass strapping on the the trigger guard and backstrap. I do appreciate all of this input thank you.

 

[bpd303]

The arbor needs to be screwed in at least a half turn. Notice the gap where the barrel mates with the frame. If the arbor will not screw in any further some material will have to be removed at the back so it doesn't bottom out on the frame.

 

[WolfSpring]

By back to you mean where it threads? If so I would need to file the end of the threads and then do some work at the base of the threads because it is touching after one more 1/4 turn as far as it will go. If I file anymore from the tip of the arbor where it meets the barrel it will be too loose. I can try on the threads and base though and see where that gets me, that makes sense, just going to be a PITA and have to be careful not to mess up my threads.
Thanks

 

[Billnpatti]

I saw something in the picture that makes me think that your barrel is not pulling up tight to the frame. Look at where the bottom of the barrel is supposed to contact the frame. You have a gap there that is almost the same as the gap between the cylinder and the breach of the barrel. Either the wedge hole in the cylinder pin is too wide or the wedge is too narrow and is not pulling the barrel tight up against the frame. Try this, remove the wedge from the hole and then place a piece of wood across the muzzle of your barrel and give it a few solid taps with a mallet to see if the barrel will move back more and close the gap between the barrel and the cylinder. Use just taps. Do not whack away at it like you were driving nails. If the barrel moves back and the gap between the cylinder closes up satisfactorily, then it is either your wedge or the hole in the cylinder pin that is the problem. There should be no gap where the barrel joins the frame.

 

[azmntman]

pin problem somewhere is my guess....

 

[Zonie]

If that gap shown in your photo is all the bigger it gets you don't have a problem.

Eyeballing the picture tells me the gap is just a about 1/32 of an inch.

This isn't particularly good but it isn't dangerous (unless your standing to the side of the gun when it fires).