Did I overpay for this Colt Signature Series?

[45D]

The Unboxing
Note to @45D - the arbor is not short!! If anything, it's too long, too tight, and that's why the wedge and barrel to frame fit are too tight. I think some judicious sanding of the arbor end and circumference might be indicated.

This is going to be fun .....

Note to wiscoaster : yes it is.

Maybe you could tell everyone else how you came to the conclusion that the arbor is correct/ too long!!!
Was it "driving the wedge in all the way didn't lock the cyl up" or dropping a washer down the arbor hole and I could put the wedge back in ?

By the way, you don't need Liquid Wrench to get a wedge loose or a barrel assy. You just need a plastic faced hammer and balls ! Your not gonna hurt metal with a plastic hammer.

Congratulations on a premium finished Uberti ( turnabout is fair play !!!) !!

Mike

 

[BBGun]

Please don't croak....we want to hear how your range visit worked out!

I second that.

 

[LME]

My wife bought me a ML rifle for our first anniversary. She paid too much ... well, maybe not. It is now worth three, maybe four, times what she paid. She never even knew I thought she paid too much. She now knows what it is worth and feels goooood about what she did. Shoot it , shoot it some more, display it for your pleasure, then shoot it some more. Money does not buy happiness but it can often buy something that brings happiness. You did very well! Dale P,S. Giving your money away sometimes brings happiness to you and the recipient. That brings even more happiness.

You got you a good mate. If i were you I would have done exactly as you did and keep my mouth shut! From what I am seeing in the women these days it would be hard to find a good one?

 

[wiscoaster]

Maybe you could tell everyone else how you came to the conclusion that the arbor is correct/ too long!!!

I don't remember the correct terms, but where the barrel assembly meets and pins to the frame matched up perfectly with the arbor all the way in, and the frame offset. Detailed in some video in don't remember off the top.

 

[wiscoaster]

....
By the way, you don't need Liquid Wrench to get a wedge loose or a barrel assy. You just need a plastic faced hammer and balls ! Your not gonna hurt metal with a plastic hammer.

Done first with plastic faced hammer, as seen in photo, not enough force, then with a ball peen hammer and wood to protect the metal. Took enough balls with a $755 gun, but been done before with other guns worth more, but not nearly so "special".

 

[wiscoaster]

By the way, you don't need Liquid Wrench to get a wedge loose or a barrel assy.

Oh, yes, you do, if it's been sitting all tight and locked up for 30 years.

 

[45D]

I don't remember the correct terms, but where the barrel assembly meets and pins to the frame matched up perfectly with the arbor all the way in, and the frame offset. Detailed in some video in don't remember off the top.

1st -Doesn't mean a thing as far as arbor length.


The other 2 points just mean you need to swing harder Alice!!!

Enjoy your new "gun".

Mike

 

[wiscoaster]

1st -Doesn't mean a thing as far as arbor length.
....

As I understand, if they overlap, it's an indicator the arbor is too short? Or did I misunderstand?

(not trying to start yert another arbor controversy thread)

 

[wiscoaster]

In any case, I'm about to completely disassemble this thing, make sure there's no rust, and that all the parts that need to slide, rotate, and fit do so freely and without interference. If that devalues it as a collectible, so be it. I prefer a gun that functions, not one that sits in a box until I die.

 

[45D]

As I understand, if they overlap, it's an indicator the arbor is too short? Or did I misunderstand?

That test is not a reliable test. Most open top revolvers won't even go together if they're "out of line" (because of the broaching process) so the only test is a small washer in the arbor hole and assemble ( if you can, why can you ?) Or drive the wedge in (don't be a weenie!!) and see if it locks up the cylinder.

Mike

 

[Crow Choker]

wiscoaster!!! You indicated the barrel and frame came apart very hard. Check the slot in the barrel assembly and the slot in the arbor for any burrs that may have been left in the milling process. I've heard of and have read that new repro guns like the Colts will have burrs in both or one of the slots making disassembly tough. I had a Uberti 1860 frame revolver, while not a cap and ball but rather a 1860 Mason/Richards Conversion that was new outa the box that didn't want to come apart. I didn't have the loading lever to place the ball rammer between cylinder holes to use as leverage.

After alot of attempts, I tied a leather thong around the barrel putting a whiplash on it and then tied the two ends to a sturdy metal basement support post. I then pulled straight out while tapping with a nylon tipped hammer. After several pulls while tapping around the wedge area the barrel and frame (arbor) half separated and I was able to further separate them. In examining the barrel and frame I could see burrs left from milling in the arbor and barrel wedge slots and when assembled in Old Italy and the wedge driven in, it allowed the burrs to sort of fuse together between the two parts. Careful filing and stoning took care of of the problem and have never had disassembly problems since. Check the arbor hole in the barrel and the arbor for any burrs also. Just something to check.

 

[Crow Choker]

Reference your cost for that Sam Colt Sig model, I've seen other signature models go for close to what you paid. At least you didn't pay $3025 as some guy did on GB not long ago. One of the members here posted it here this last spring. A well respected member of another forum dealing with a rifle having a lever and has a model number one less than 100 noted sometime back when someone paid three times over value for the model I just described that there are three basic reasons he's seen over the years on online gun auctions that people will overpay. 1) Lack of knowledge of value and collectability, 2) Stubbornness and pride--no way are they gonna let that other guy win the bid, and 3) a combination of 1 and 2 and the possibility of any of the three fueled by an excess of adult beverage. The person advised he has seen it. Not saying you fit any of the three categories but ifin someone bids on something on GB or any of the others, ya gotta know all of the if's, an's and butt's what they're bidding on. I've seen winning bidders back out of a winning bid, but they probably won't get sued but can be blackballed from any future auctions. Enjoy yer Sam Colt Sig 44 and just leave it at that, all the posts you want to keep adding isn't going to change anything.

 

[brushblind]

If it were a 2nd Gen. that would be a good price! The signature series or 3rd. Gen are Uberti's but nice ones!

 

[Wes]

I bumped into this Colt Signature Series 1860 New Army on Gunbroker when I was looking for something else. All of my cap 'n ball revolvers are repros, with no collectible value, so I figured that with the auction standing at $550 at the time, if I could aquire one of these, with at least marginal collectible value, it might be a good score. So I jumped into it. Well, somebody else probably had the same thoughts, so we subsequently enterered into a bidding battle involving last-minute bid increases and 15 minute rule extensions -- the ususal psychological game of Gunbroker chicken, where the bigger cluck gets the hen. Well, I turned out to be the cluck. But not having had the time and opportunity to do due diligence to proper market value before bidding, as I know I should have (and usually do), I'm wondering if I paid too much to be the big cluck for this item. Not that it matters all that much; time levels all stupidty, and the other stuff I was looking to aquire can wait. Your thoughts on the $755 (+ shipping, taxes & fees) price I'm paying?

https://www.gunbroker.com/Item/1008736288

I personally think you did well, if you like it is all that matters. That is a stunning Colt and hard to come by. I personally would not shoot it as I have other Cap & Ball revolvers that I’ve shot. To have and hold would be a joy for me. Howard, Ks is only an hour from me and if I’d known of it I might have gone and bought it. Enjoy your revolver!

 

[Wes]

I think ammunition is the currency of the future and muzzleloaders along with.

Any time I buy a new firearm in a new caliber I buy hundreds of rounds of ammo for it and many times reloading dies, cases and bullets also. I’m old and will never shoot it all but if there is a societal breakdown I’ll give it to younger patriots.

 

[Wes]

i might be wrong , but i believe the signature series is the least valuable. but if you like it ...all is well

“According to the Blue Book of Gun Values, "Although parts for the Signature Series were cast in Italy, they were fully assembled and hand-finished in the United States using the proprietary Colt formulas for bluing and color-casehardening." The Italian origin of the raw parts for these revolvers is no doubt the cause of some disagreement on their authenticity, but the Blue Book further states, "Colt Blackpowder Arms Company Signature Series revolvers are regarded as authentic Colt pistols."

Importantly, these revolvers bear only Colt markings—no import or proof marks—settling the issue rather emphatically.

Link: https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/shooting-the-colts-signature-series-1860-army/99535

 

[OldMaineWoodsman]

"Did I pay too much for this?" could be applied to vehicles, homes, all sorts of things including firearms.

If you like it and are happy with it that is what matters. Personally, I never looked at firearms as an investment or worried about future return. I bought it because I wanted it to use.

I have a Black Box Colt Black Powder series Model 1851 Navy. I bought it new in the 1980's. I have shot it I don't know how many times. It is well-maintained, and I retained the box and paperwork (usually I don't).

If I choose to sell it someday, I will more than make up what I paid for it. Use it and enjoy.

 

[Wes]

If it were a 2nd Gen. that would be a good price! The signature series or 3rd. Gen are Uberti's but nice ones!

“According to the Blue Book of Gun Values, "Although parts for the Signature Series were cast in Italy, they were fully assembled and hand-finished in the United States using the proprietary Colt formulas for bluing and color-casehardening." The Italian origin of the raw parts for these revolvers is no doubt the cause of some disagreement on their authenticity, but the Blue Book further states, "Colt Blackpowder Arms Company Signature Series revolvers are regarded as authentic Colt pistols."

Importantly, these revolvers bear only Colt markings—no import or proof marks—settling the issue rather emphatically.

Article link: https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/shooting-the-colts-signature-series-1860-army/99535

 

[Whitworth]

After all has been said and done, money's only money, you've got a nice pistol you wanted now enjoy it.

 

[Wes]

After all has been said and done, money's only money, you've got a nice pistol you wanted now enjoy it.

Right! It’s a beautiful pistol that’s not being made by Colt anymore.
Right on the money part as well, if you don’t spend it it piles up in the corners and creates a fire hazard. Enjoy you stunning Colt!