Differences Between a Fowler and a Fusil?

[Rod Man]

Well,

Over the years I kinda considered it this way a Fusil is (military) no left handers. Fowlers were /could be had (bespoked) as lefties.

LOL! OK, OK Ill sit down.

 

[Brokennock]

Some interesting personal theories presented after gentleman who are well researched in the subject matter have given us excellent and concise answers. Answers that include citations to how these guns were described in period advertising and other publications. I wish people with personal theories/beliefs would elaborate more on the reasoning behind these beliefs or theories.

 

[Brokenbear]

Any difference in size of the sights both front and rear(if they had a rear sight even) ?

 

[dave_person]

Hi Brokennock,
My descriptions of fusils and fowlers come directly from Bailey's "Small Arms of British Forces in North America", Didier Bianchi's " French Military Small Arms", Rene Chartrand's "French Military Arms and Armor in North America", and John George's "English Guns and Rifles". It is not my personal speculation. The term "fusil" actually goes back to the 13th century and meant a device for making sparks with steel and flint. It was later applied to any gun using a rock to create spark for ignition including wheelocks, snaplocks, snaphaunces, and flintlocks. In 1671, it was applied to the flintlock arms of the "Fusiliers du Roi" who guarded artillery and powder magazines.

dave

 

[rich pierce]

I’m guessing the responses that say, “I’ve shot both and fusils have more of a Roman nose shape and are uncomfortable to shoot” are comparing generic fusil de chasse contemporary reproductions with something Jim Chambers provides. I’m other words, ready to shoot guns easily found in the marketplace. As Brokennock suggested, it can be helpful to the reader if those posting provide their points of reference.

 

[Bushfire]

New South Wales was a British Colony..., penal... but British.

LD

We all were British colonies, that was the joke!

 

[Brokennock]

Hi Brokennock,
My descriptions of fusils and fowlers come directly from Bailey's "Small Arms of British Forces in North America", Didier Bianchi's " French Military Small Arms", Rene Chartrand's "French Military Arms and Armor in North America", and John George's "English Guns and Rifles". It is not my personal speculation. The term "fusil" actually goes back to the 13th century and meant a device for making sparks with steel and flint. It was later applied to any gun using a rock to create spark for ignition including wheelocks, snaplocks, snaphaunces, and flintlocks. In 1671, it was applied to the flintlock arms of the "Fusiliers du Roi" who guarded artillery and powder magazines.

dave

Lol.
I certainly was not referring to your reply as speculation. The replies from yourself, Grenadier1758 , Rich Pierce, and Capt Jas. are the ones I was referring to as well researched and including references.
Following those came a bunch of, "I think," "I believe," and other such unsupported "theory." Which I don't understand. If I one has a belief or theory and then someone who has done the homework, such as yourself, throws down some educated wisdom, one should maybe alter their theory. Or, if they feel it is a worthy idea still, express that theory with supporting evidence.

 

[Cruzatte]

Hi Brokennock,
My descriptions of fusils and fowlers come directly from Bailey's "Small Arms of British Forces in North America", Didier Bianchi's " French Military Small Arms", Rene Chartrand's "French Military Arms and Armor in North America", and John George's "English Guns and Rifles". It is not my personal speculation. The term "fusil" actually goes back to the 13th century and meant a device for making sparks with steel and flint. It was later applied to any gun using a rock to create spark for ignition including wheelocks, snaplocks, snaphaunces, and flintlocks. In 1671, it was applied to the flintlock arms of the "Fusiliers du Roi" who guarded artillery and powder magazines.

dave

Just an aside; the word "fusil" in modern French translates as "rifle." The words "fusil de chasse" translate to "shotgun" according to Google translation. Carry on.

 

[Coinneach]

In the period, the smooth bored gun used for hunting birds was probably called a fusil or fuzee and I recall seeing in the reproduction ads that fusils were available.

Let's not overwork this terminology as there is mostly the difference in the name.

The smaller calibre (eg 20 gauge) shorter and lighter versions of the Brown Bess were commonly called Fusils, or Officers Fusil in British Army parlance.

 

[Coinneach]

I sure am glad we aussies were never british!

We were up to Federation in 1900.

 

[Mayne1713]

Apples and oranges.

Musket Bore- 12 guage and up
Bastard Bore- 16 bore
Fusil 20 bore

Fowler: civilian smoothbore for fowling.

Terminology is important.

 

[Brokennock]

Apples and oranges.

Musket Bore- 12 guage and up
Bastard Bore- 16 bore
Fusil 20 bore

Fowler: civilian smoothbore for fowling.

Terminology is important.

You are correct that terminology is important.
So is support for one's statements, when stated as being irrefutable. So citation of the source of information is important.

Where do you get you get your definitions?

 

[Rock Home Isle]

My American Fowler is essentially a 20 gauge smoothbore on an early Virginia stock. It shoots RBs with authority…much nicer to shoot than the Fusil.

 

[rich pierce]

My American Fowler is essentially a 20 gauge smoothbore on an early Virginia stock. It shoots RBs with authority…much nicer to shoot than the Fusil.
View attachment 154066

Lots of folks would call that a smooth rifle. I guess this thread just proves different folks use the same word for different things, and different words for the same things.

My smoothbores
I have a New England fowler I built based on a restock of a 1728 French fusil ordinaire.

I have an early English trade gun I built based on a Wilson ordered by Sir William Johnson to give to Native American allies of the Crown.

I have an original 1700s Germanic boar gun which has straight rifling.

I have an original Lancaster smooth rifle probably made 1790-1810.

My next smoothbore will be an early 12 ga Hudson Valley fowler with a 54” barrel.

After that I will build a 20 gauge club butt fowler.

See how easy that was? If you’ve spent decades studying originals in depth, you have a clear idea in your mind of each of these guns. If not, you know how to search to see what each may look like. I didn’t simply call any of them a fowler or a fusil, because those definitions are extremely broad unless one operates in a very narrow universe (English-speaking military in the 18th century).

 

[mushka]

It isn't what is called a smooth rifle, it has no rear sight. Nice gun.

 

[rich pierce]

It isn't what is called a smooth rifle, it has no rear sight. Nice gun.

If only the presence of a rear sight defined a smooth rifle!

 

[Grenadier1758]

A smooth rifle will look like a rifle. It will have a rifle like curved butt plate. It will have a more ornate trigger guard. It will have rifle front and rear sights. Most likely it will have a raised cheek piece. It will have a slightly shorter length of pull than a sporting gun. It may have set triggers, often double set triggers. It's not until you get a good look at the barrel and see the octagon to round transition and the muzzle to verify no rifling can It be unmistakably a smooth bored gun.

As @rich pierce observes, it's not really all that simple to point out smooth rifles and the differences to the sporting guns.

 

[Mayne1713]

You are correct that terminology is important.
So is support for one's statements, when stated as being irrefutable. So citation of the source of information is important.

Where do you get you get your definitions?

I have absolutely no source for my statement. I have no documentation to back my statment up. It is what I was taught by my companions of 45 years. Primarily my close friend Jeffery Miller. I am willing to bet that it is covered in a back issue of "The Pine Tree Shilling". Jeff is the historian extraordinaire and I trust him implicitly. On the other hand I will add that there were laws here in New England wherein it was illegal to sell firelocks of musket bore to the Indians.

 

[Mayne1713]

You are correct that terminology is important.
So is support for one's statements, when stated as being irrefutable. So citation of the source of information is important.

Where do you get you get your definitions?

1693 Mass. Acts 48, An Act for Regulating of the Militia, ch. 3, §§ 1, 5 for real quick starters.​

 

[Bushfire]

I have an original 1700s Germanic boar gun which has straight rifling.

I would love to hear more about this gun and see some pics.