I was wonderind if anyone has or knows someone who has a Dixie Jager? If so what are their thoughs about the gun and how it fits in to the French and Indian War? This is the gun I plan on buying when I get back from Iraq. Unless there is a better Jager for about the same price.
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Dixie Jager
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Well, I don't own one, and have never shot one, but I have some thoughts on it anyway.
The twist is 1:24 and the rifleing groove depth is .006.
Dixie says to use a 95 grain load of FFg with a .530 ball and a .015 patch.
IMO, the twist is much too fast for that load/patch/ball combination for good accuracy.
It might work great with sabots and slugs. Indeed, the rifleing twist/depth seems to be made just for them.
I don't know what possesed Dixie to put this kind of a barrel on their gun, because most of us Old Fa*ts on this forum will point out that the best twist for a .54 cal roundball starts at 1;48 and goes up to 1:70.
I shouldn't get into the architecture of the gun, but starting with the unswamped 1 inch barrel it leaves a lot to be desired IF your into PC stuff.
If you just want a fairly nice looking gun, it could make you happy, but the price of $825 plus postage is really putting you into some of the low cost "custom" guns price range that are available from places like TVM.
Nothing against Italian firearms. They make some good ones, but the TVM and similar guns are 100% American.
Good luck to you in Iraq. Keep your eyes peeled and don't trust no-one but your buds!!
The twist is 1:24 and the rifleing groove depth is .006.
Dixie says to use a 95 grain load of FFg with a .530 ball and a .015 patch.
IMO, the twist is much too fast for that load/patch/ball combination for good accuracy.
It might work great with sabots and slugs. Indeed, the rifleing twist/depth seems to be made just for them.
I don't know what possesed Dixie to put this kind of a barrel on their gun, because most of us Old Fa*ts on this forum will point out that the best twist for a .54 cal roundball starts at 1;48 and goes up to 1:70.
I shouldn't get into the architecture of the gun, but starting with the unswamped 1 inch barrel it leaves a lot to be desired IF your into PC stuff.
If you just want a fairly nice looking gun, it could make you happy, but the price of $825 plus postage is really putting you into some of the low cost "custom" guns price range that are available from places like TVM.
Nothing against Italian firearms. They make some good ones, but the TVM and similar guns are 100% American.
Good luck to you in Iraq. Keep your eyes peeled and don't trust no-one but your buds!!
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Pretty sure, but not positive, the Dixie jaeger is made by Pedersoli and is available in a slower "roundball" twist. A recent post indicated that the lock was small for a jaeger, which generally had large germanic-type locks. Haven't seen one personally but do like the .54 caliber they come in.
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I had one and loved the way it shot. I had both flint and percussion ignition systems and the flint lock was fast as lightening and that super fast twist still busted charcoal briquetts and Tootsie Roll Pops at a local blackpowder shoot(about 15 yards) with the flintlock. If the fast twist scares you, Pedersoli now offers the Jaeger with a 1-60 twist. Go to Davide Pedersoli's web site to see it. Having said all that, the Pedersoli/Dixie Jaeger is made with John Bivens rifle furniture which is an American style (I think) and the stock's shape just doesn't measure up to a germanic jaeger's profile or mass and a Jaeger without a swamped barrel is like a..........well I don't know what's it like but it 'just aint right'. The sliding wooden patchbox is a nice feature. I sold mine and bought a Jaeger kit from Track of the Wolf. Wish I had done so in the first place! The Dixie Jaeger is a good quality rifle that is as close to jaegerish as you'll get in a production gun and it could be altered to some extent but if you have the nerve go ahead and build one from a kit. Study real Jaegers on the internet and through books first before you go investing hundreds of dollars on something. I lost money selling my Dixie Jaeger :curse: Yes, Jaegers were over here during and before the F&I war but I don't know how numerous they were. Sorry this is so long but I wanted to answer your questions as best I could.
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I had one and loved the way it shot. I had both flint and percussion ignition systems and the flint lock was fast as lightening and that super fast twist still busted charcoal briquetts and Tootsie Roll Pops at a local blackpowder shoot(about 15 yards) with the flintlock. If the fast twist scares you, Pedersoli now offers the Jaeger with a 1-60 twist. Go to Davide Pedersoli's web site to see it. Having said all that, the Pedersoli/Dixie Jaeger is made with John Bivens rifle furniture which is an American style (I think) and the stock's shape just doesn't measure up to a germanic jaeger's profile or mass and a Jaeger without a swamped barrel is like a..........well I don't know what's it like but it 'just aint right'. The sliding wooden patchbox is a nice feature. I sold mine and bought a Jaeger kit from Track of the Wolf. Wish I had done so in the first place! The Dixie Jaeger is a good quality rifle that is as close to jaegerish as you'll get in a production gun and it could be altered to some extant but if you have the nerve go ahead and build one from a kit. Study real Jaegers on the internet and through books first before you go investing hundreds of dollars on something. I lost money selling my Dixie Jaeger :curse: Yes, Jaegers were over here during and before the F&I war but I don't know how numerous they were. Sorry this is so long but I wanted to answer your questions as best I could.
Thanks to everyone for their inputon this subject. Jeagermeister I had seen the Jager you recently built from TOTW, and I was wondering if their kits are difficult for a beginner with some metal and wood skills or do I need to send to someone to do most of the work.
Rat
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I used to think I had great metal, (still do) and "some" skill at wood, as far as shaping it. I got the kit from TOW, and wound up over my head, and had to send it to a rifle maker to rescue it, and me from disaster. I'm convinced now that I have no rifle-making skills.
But I also now have a fine .61 calibre Jeager that still makes me whisper "wow" everytime I pick it up.
Previously, I had built a Brown Bess carbine kit from a Pedersoli kit, and it turned out great. But it was a pre-assembled, (for the most part) "in the white" kit.
The TOW kit definately takes some real skill, and again was over my head. It's not a kit rifle in the same sense that an "in the white", or pre-assembled rifle kit is.
If you can find a maker who will take your kit, and make you an "in the white" rifle, you can save some bucks, wind up with a really nice rifle, and still take pride in doing the finishing work.
Whether you do that, or just have a maker build the rifle from the kit for you, it's worth every single penny in the long run.
At any rate, the SECOND you discover you are in over your head with a TOTW kit, GET HELP! ADMIT DEFEAT!! I have a friend that would not give up on a Hawken kit he had. He made a butt-ugly rifle that he hated, and then finally gave it away. !! That had to be a heart breaker, not to mention the money down the drain. I came close to doing that with my Jaeger.
Rat.
But I also now have a fine .61 calibre Jeager that still makes me whisper "wow" everytime I pick it up.
Previously, I had built a Brown Bess carbine kit from a Pedersoli kit, and it turned out great. But it was a pre-assembled, (for the most part) "in the white" kit.
The TOW kit definately takes some real skill, and again was over my head. It's not a kit rifle in the same sense that an "in the white", or pre-assembled rifle kit is.
If you can find a maker who will take your kit, and make you an "in the white" rifle, you can save some bucks, wind up with a really nice rifle, and still take pride in doing the finishing work.
Whether you do that, or just have a maker build the rifle from the kit for you, it's worth every single penny in the long run.
At any rate, the SECOND you discover you are in over your head with a TOTW kit, GET HELP! ADMIT DEFEAT!! I have a friend that would not give up on a Hawken kit he had. He made a butt-ugly rifle that he hated, and then finally gave it away. !! That had to be a heart breaker, not to mention the money down the drain. I came close to doing that with my Jaeger.
Rat.
brushbuster
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how would you rate the skills needed for a totw kit verses a jim chambers kit?
Guest
One must realize that what we are talking about are not snap together "kits", They are the group of parts needed to build a rifle of a specific style.
They are builders' kits with 80% finished stocks that have enough meat left for carving. The barrel channel is cut but not inletted for the tang. The lock mortise, if inlet will need some attention for proper fit. No holes are either located or drilled. No dovetails are cut in the metal or drilled for keys or pins. The sights are not installed or even dovetailed.
If you have previous experience of building a rifle from a stock blank, have all of the proper tools, and the skill, one can put togather a poorboy (no buttplate,sideplate or entry thimble) in about 40 hours if all goes well. All of the furnature and a fancy finish will take 200 hours.
This is not like building a shelving unit from Home Depot. It is not like building a model car or airplane. Any furnature grade woodworking skills from highschool shop class are of no use here! Metal working skills? Have you ever cut precision dovetails for your sights by hand? If I had to go out and replace just the files and rasps needed to build a poorboy it would cost $100 minimum.
In the old days one apprinticed for 7 years to learn these skills, then remained a journeyman for 10 or 15 more before attaining master status. Some people have a natural knack for building, but most of the rifles one sees on the market are actually little better than journeyman status. The majority of the simi-custom guns are little better than what a good apprintice was expected to produce in past times.
The basic diference between the TOTW kits and the Chambers kits is that Chambers kits are assemblies of parts identical to historic origional rifles so that when one finishes the assembly the detail and archecture are appropriate for a specific gun at a specific time by a historic maker. Chambers kits are always top grade componants.
TOTW gives more options, but all of your choices may not assemble into an archecturically or historicly correct gun. It is as if they dealer went therough the catalog and picked diferent groups of parts based on price or what sells best, or what people "think" a gun should look like.
With either dealer the groups of parts are expensive. If one has no experience with shaping the final archecture or the precision fitting of parts, it is best to purchase a gun already assembled and in the white.
:imo:
They are builders' kits with 80% finished stocks that have enough meat left for carving. The barrel channel is cut but not inletted for the tang. The lock mortise, if inlet will need some attention for proper fit. No holes are either located or drilled. No dovetails are cut in the metal or drilled for keys or pins. The sights are not installed or even dovetailed.
If you have previous experience of building a rifle from a stock blank, have all of the proper tools, and the skill, one can put togather a poorboy (no buttplate,sideplate or entry thimble) in about 40 hours if all goes well. All of the furnature and a fancy finish will take 200 hours.
This is not like building a shelving unit from Home Depot. It is not like building a model car or airplane. Any furnature grade woodworking skills from highschool shop class are of no use here! Metal working skills? Have you ever cut precision dovetails for your sights by hand? If I had to go out and replace just the files and rasps needed to build a poorboy it would cost $100 minimum.
In the old days one apprinticed for 7 years to learn these skills, then remained a journeyman for 10 or 15 more before attaining master status. Some people have a natural knack for building, but most of the rifles one sees on the market are actually little better than journeyman status. The majority of the simi-custom guns are little better than what a good apprintice was expected to produce in past times.
The basic diference between the TOTW kits and the Chambers kits is that Chambers kits are assemblies of parts identical to historic origional rifles so that when one finishes the assembly the detail and archecture are appropriate for a specific gun at a specific time by a historic maker. Chambers kits are always top grade componants.
TOTW gives more options, but all of your choices may not assemble into an archecturically or historicly correct gun. It is as if they dealer went therough the catalog and picked diferent groups of parts based on price or what sells best, or what people "think" a gun should look like.
With either dealer the groups of parts are expensive. If one has no experience with shaping the final archecture or the precision fitting of parts, it is best to purchase a gun already assembled and in the white.
:imo:
Excellent summary Ghost...exactly why I don't delude myself into thinking I could build one that I'd be satisfied with in the end...I'd just trash it, and then buy a manufactured one anyway...my hat is off to those who have the tools, skills, and most importantly the patience to undertake such projects.
For those like me who lack the tools, skills, and patience, and knowing that mass produced TC Hawkens are not period specific, they're never-the-less an attractive, high quality, reliable rifle for the money, and I've sure had an outstanding time with them for many years now...pick them up off auction for $200-250, refinish the stocks so they're prettier than the factory finish, get required items repaired no charge under lifetime warranty, etc...an easy and comparatively inexpensive way to get started down that long path into traditional style muzzleloading
For those like me who lack the tools, skills, and patience, and knowing that mass produced TC Hawkens are not period specific, they're never-the-less an attractive, high quality, reliable rifle for the money, and I've sure had an outstanding time with them for many years now...pick them up off auction for $200-250, refinish the stocks so they're prettier than the factory finish, get required items repaired no charge under lifetime warranty, etc...an easy and comparatively inexpensive way to get started down that long path into traditional style muzzleloading
Well said Ghost.
I will give the person who was lucky enough to have a high school wood shop and metal shop class, and went thru them the benifit of the doubt.
IF the person has had this kind of training, AND, if they are willing to TAKE THEIR TIME, and most importantly, to Ask Questions on this Forum, they will be able to turn out a gun which they will be proud of.
That's a lot of if's, and for some, it is too many.
As Clint says "A man has to know his limitations".
My recomendations to those who have assembled some of the "kit" guns the factorys have put out is to start with a box of pistol parts.
You can pick up some nice wood for $50, a barrel for $35, Breech plug $8, lock for $90, trigger, trigger guard, thimbels etc for another $70.
That way, if it is too much for you, you will only be out a few Hundred bucks rather than the $450+ you can easily get into rifle parts.
I will give the person who was lucky enough to have a high school wood shop and metal shop class, and went thru them the benifit of the doubt.
IF the person has had this kind of training, AND, if they are willing to TAKE THEIR TIME, and most importantly, to Ask Questions on this Forum, they will be able to turn out a gun which they will be proud of.
That's a lot of if's, and for some, it is too many.
As Clint says "A man has to know his limitations".
My recomendations to those who have assembled some of the "kit" guns the factorys have put out is to start with a box of pistol parts.
You can pick up some nice wood for $50, a barrel for $35, Breech plug $8, lock for $90, trigger, trigger guard, thimbels etc for another $70.
That way, if it is too much for you, you will only be out a few Hundred bucks rather than the $450+ you can easily get into rifle parts.
Boonetract
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I've had a dixie jaeger now for three or four years. I think they went with the fast twist because of the historically fast twist of original jaeger barrels. I removed the .54 barrel and replaced it with a .62 slow twist (wanted to lighten the gun further for hunting). I bought it as a short dear rifle. To do anything PC with the gun I would leave the barrell bright and as well as the furnature. If you scrape the forend and give it a slight taper from front to back, you can give the some illusion of a swamped barrel. Get rid of the nose cap and pour one from pewter, again flairing it to appear that the muzzle is flaired. A little carving, and you've got a nice .54 deer rifle that sparks like hell and shoot fast. Those guns in kit form are going for $550.00 now. Its a great starter flintlock and very accurate. It came just about assembled in the box, so all that was really needed was to knock the pins out and carve and sand. :results:
"I" shoot 75 grains of fffg with a .530 run from a Rapine bag mold and pre-lubed patch.
"I" shoot 75 grains of fffg with a .530 run from a Rapine bag mold and pre-lubed patch.
Johnny Tremain
Silversmith in training
Let me tell you about my first Dixie rifle (and last) Not only are none of them historically correct. (that matters to some folk, not me). A fine Pedersoli 54 cal. after the 8th shot the fizzen when down range with the ball! Seems they forgot to file and set the frizzen spring. the 8-14 lb spring was rated at 355 lbs before my lock guy made a wonder lock out of it. Most of the brass wore thru in less then five years of regular use and cleaning.
After I got another frizzen (took 5 months, Pedersoli dont keep spare parts then) It never did work right and would eat rocks. (but man was it fast) Now years later I know that the frizzen wasnt temped right and was to soft.
The MAIN reason I am building instead of buying this time around is that all the barrels for them store boughts are semi-rifled. You cant touch my Rice barrel in ANY store bought and many kits that are available.
Any of you out there can make your own rifle. Some folks kits are more complete than others. I've spent the last months checking them all out.
Dont buy it MAKE IT!
After I got another frizzen (took 5 months, Pedersoli dont keep spare parts then) It never did work right and would eat rocks. (but man was it fast) Now years later I know that the frizzen wasnt temped right and was to soft.
The MAIN reason I am building instead of buying this time around is that all the barrels for them store boughts are semi-rifled. You cant touch my Rice barrel in ANY store bought and many kits that are available.
Any of you out there can make your own rifle. Some folks kits are more complete than others. I've spent the last months checking them all out.
Dont buy it MAKE IT!
I just ordered a Dixie Jaeger Rifle kit. Fits in my budget. I do not have the skill it takes to build a TOTW kit or a Pecatonica kit for that matter. My research indicates that the DGW Jaeger kit is as "PC" as any. There were many styles of Jaegers from all over that part of Europe. There are many guys that can build good rifles from scratch. There are guys out there that will spend 2-3-4 thousand dollars for a rifle that was built by "a known gunmaker". I am not one of them. ANd then, let's talk about pure pc. How many of these "known" gunmakers pound out a barrel from ribbons of iron or steel. And then the barrels these "known" makers use, how many are being produced by companies who use "cheap" or "illegal" foreign labor ??? Then I suppose they become "gunbuilders"
Guest
You will love your Dixie/Pedersoli Early American Jaeger. Since you're getting it basically "in the white" you will be able to personalize it a bit and make it unique just as all jaegers are. True jaegers are like snowflakes, no two are exactly the same but they are all distinctly jaegers. I ordered a jaeger rear sight for mine and I got the sling from Dixie as well. Study some jaegers on the net and you'll find that some very basic carving and angle changes will go a long way towards fixin' her up a bit. The patchbox lid is a great place to show some personality. I also replaced the ram rod with a hickory rod from Dixie. I'll quit babbling, I could talk jaeger all day. Enjoy your kit!
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Jeagermeister - does the Dixie Gun Works jeager sling come with a snap on one end (for the stirrup) and a slit on the other end for the "button" on the buttstock?
Boonetract
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Ties are on the stirup side. I like mine as well. Makes hauling out much easier!
"My research indicates that the DGW Jaeger kit is as "PC" as any."
I am sure you will enjoy your new gun but the statement above indicates you may need to look a bit closer at what is out there and at the originals, no flame intended, but it is best to be aware of exactly what you have if you find yourself in the company of well studied gun students and make "PC" related claims about a particular gun... that isn't. enjoy your new smoke pole there will probably be many more to come.... it's a sickness.
I am sure you will enjoy your new gun but the statement above indicates you may need to look a bit closer at what is out there and at the originals, no flame intended, but it is best to be aware of exactly what you have if you find yourself in the company of well studied gun students and make "PC" related claims about a particular gun... that isn't. enjoy your new smoke pole there will probably be many more to come.... it's a sickness.
Guest
Yes, the Dixie sling laces in an" X" pattern up front and is slotted in back for the button. The leather is rather thick and the buckle is heavy. I cut my buckle off and laced it back together. Now it is much lighter and no buckle to scratch up the stock(thanks for the tip, Birddog6). I no longer have my Pedersoli Jaeger but the sling is on my TOTW Jaeger. TOTW also offers some sharp looking "Jaeger" slings made partly of cloth. I kinda miss that old Dixie Jaeger. You can see the front sling attatchment in this view.
