The title says it all.
Do I need a filler for a 20 grain charge in a .44 cal. Cylinder?
- Thread starter Old-Duckman
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No offense but that's pretty much of a 'pooch' load in a 44. If you want to shoot that type of a squib load in a 44 caliber cap and ball, maybe wanting to economize on powder why not just get a .36 caliber capper. 20 grains is pretty much the max with them so you can cut a 36 ball load down to less than 20 grains. JMO
I agree, 20 grains will not even get a ball through a piece of Plywood.
Not long ago I started trying to find the best loads in my 44's. I don't know about anyone else's, but I use 25 grains of pyrodex and 10 grains cream of wheat. Then my wad and then a .451 roundball.
That puts the ball close enough to the end of the cylinder to be more accurate.
Not long ago I started trying to find the best loads in my 44's. I don't know about anyone else's, but I use 25 grains of pyrodex and 10 grains cream of wheat. Then my wad and then a .451 roundball.
That puts the ball close enough to the end of the cylinder to be more accurate.
I use around 30 grains in my 44 Remington, 44 1851 Navy and 1860 Army 44. Not magnum, big kicker's, or overpowered by any means. My 44 Dragoons get around 42, Walker 50, and ROA 35-38. Both of my 36's get 20 grains, 18 sometimes.
Old Duckman, I don't believe you could get the ball seated with any pressure on 20 grains of powder without a filler. Yes you'd need a filler, but you'd not have much more than a poof-tink load. Increasing your powder load a bit, adding a lubed felt wad plus the ball would avoid any need for a filler. Use a .454" diameter ball also.
Old Duckman, I don't believe you could get the ball seated with any pressure on 20 grains of powder without a filler. Yes you'd need a filler, but you'd not have much more than a poof-tink load. Increasing your powder load a bit, adding a lubed felt wad plus the ball would avoid any need for a filler. Use a .454" diameter ball also.
TDM
Cannon
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While 20 gr is a light .44 load, it’s fine for plinking. For best accuracy add 10 gr or so of grits or cornmeal to keep the ball forward.
Thanks all for the advice/info. The reason that I chose 20 grains is that I read, or watched, somewhere that a brass framed revolver should not go above 20 so as to not eventually damage the gun.
So 25 should be a relatively ”gentle“ load for a brasser then?
So 25 should be a relatively ”gentle“ load for a brasser then?
Yes, 25 is okay in a brasser.
20 grains is all I shoot in my Ruger OA for matches/targets. I use 20 grains of 3F and 20 grains of cream of wheat. Yes more powder equals more boom but for best accuracy on targets the lower powder charges are usually best. You don’t NEED the cream of wheat as long as the ball seats fully on top of the powder without an airspace. For best accuracy the filler helps.
Uncle Miltie
50 Cal.
I use 15 grains fffg and filler because I like to win matches.
Light loads are a pleasure to shoot, and you will learn how to get the best accuracy while not getting into bad habits. Getting to be a good handgun shooter requires a LOT of practice using correct pistol technique and form. Using defensive loads may be fun but if it is causing you to flinch or contributing to poor trigger control then it will not teach you anything except to wasting powder, lead and primers not to mention your time!
I was shooting 25g 777 in my 1858 and would have no problem with 20. dont know what you been smoking but 20g in a .44 will go through a heck of a lot more than a sheet of plywood and has no problem knocking over my steel I beam target. 30g of 777 loosens up my screws and does not help my accuracy. It seems universal that folks say you need filler. never used it and never seen a photo of an actual target with comparison of groups with filler and without filler. I do know that I can hit a 6" plate @50yrds with 25g and no filler. also seen a lot of really big short range targets posted from folks who use filler.
According to an 1800s army manual i once read, 28grs for the 44 was regulation
Sage advice.
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For reference, the original .45 Long Colt cartridge used 40 grains of pistol powder
The nitrate paper cartridges issued for the Colt 1860 Army contained 24gr of fine pistol powder, somewhere between 4 and 3f , and a heavy conical bullet. It provided plenty of power for shooting people.
20 grains is perfect for a .44 Brasser. I use 30gr of 1F in my .44 Brassers all the time just because I happen to have lots of 1F. The brass frames are not butter soft with pinned in arbors like the garbage brass frame guns from the 60s-90s
The nitrate paper cartridges issued for the Colt 1860 Army contained 24gr of fine pistol powder, somewhere between 4 and 3f , and a heavy conical bullet. It provided plenty of power for shooting people.
20 grains is perfect for a .44 Brasser. I use 30gr of 1F in my .44 Brassers all the time just because I happen to have lots of 1F. The brass frames are not butter soft with pinned in arbors like the garbage brass frame guns from the 60s-90s
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I get good accuracy with 15 gr. FFFg, a felt patch soaked in Wonder Lube and a .451 round ball in my .44 Colt. Tho sometimes accuracy is sometimes affected by the caffeine shakes. I don't need much powder to punch holes in paper.
How thick is the wad? You don’t use any filler?
I have heard many warnings about having space between the powder and the ball and since the rammer only goes down to a specific depth, well I don’t want to risk anything but I have also read that some think a gap is no big deal…?
20 grains 3f a wonder wad (1/8 inch thick give or take made from dura-felt) and a 9mm case of cream of wheat filler works great in my 1858 army. The cylinder is almost full, put the ball on and it will easily seat deep enough.
I used to just fill the cylinder full with the filler over the wad but it made kind of a mess, easily spilling over the top, 9mm case of filler keeps it below the top of the cylinder enough not to spill.
I used to just fill the cylinder full with the filler over the wad but it made kind of a mess, easily spilling over the top, 9mm case of filler keeps it below the top of the cylinder enough not to spill.
Don't think 20 grains is "too light" unless you are trying to win a bowling pin shoot. In my muzzle-loading pistols (T/C Patriots in .36 and .45), I typically shoot 15 to 20 grains. You do have to be careful about shooting at some surfaces. I had a round ball hit a hardwood frame member for a pallet and bounce back to hit the thumb of my firing hand. Didn't cause any real injury, but it DID smart a bit.
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You raised some interesting question so I went and took some measurements of my Pietta Colt .44
roundball .451
wonder wad .184
15 gr FFFg .797
_________________________
1.848"
Chamber 1.146
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+ .702"
Compressing the powder will result in the ball being seated with a gap of .416 from the forcing cone. There is a small jump of the ball before entering the barrel at the forcing cone.
There is no air gap inside the chamber between powder, wad and ball.
Measurement taken with a Starrett calipre,
I hope this answers your questions.
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