Do you aim or point and shoot instinctively?

[DementedMindOfJac]

After many sessions of trying use "sights" on my percussion revolvers I had to step back and think about it. In mid 1800's did they use sights or shoot instinctively? I was not there so I cannot say. Maybe there are books that I have not read that delve into the shooting/aiming process? I believe that in the heat of the moment, back then, most revolver shots were instinctive.

Short answer is yes. Shooting sports were very popular and those who participated tuned their sights. These days the "instinctive" shooting is called "front-post" sighting. Try it. Don't worry about the rear notch. Just point her like a finger and line up the front sight.

 

[Relic shooter]

After many sessions of trying use "sights" on my percussion revolvers I had to step back and think about it. In mid 1800's did they use sights or shoot instinctively? I was not there so I cannot say. Maybe there are books that I have not read that delve into the shooting/aiming process? I believe that in the heat of the moment, back then, most revolver shots were instinctive.

Much like archery I started instinctively, went to sights, then back to instinctive. The instinctive archery shooting process, for me, has proved to be the most fruitful, fun and rewarding.

So I went to shooting my revolver instinctively. Surprise, I can see where I am shooting, I can adapt and it's a heck of a lot more fun!

Which way to you shoot your revolver?

Your revolver shooting 'instincts' are spot-on out to 20 yds, beyond is where sights play their role

 

[Relic shooter]

Test to validate instinct/point shooting with a handgun;

Randomly point your index finger at a small object like a cabinet knob below eye level, then
align your eye with your finger & you'll see that your instincts have served you well.

Accuracy while Instinct shooting is 100% reliant on shooter picking a firearm properly fits the users hand & body.

 

[Nav]

How many gun fights was Wyatt Earp in? How many was Jacob "Jelly" Bryce in? In terms of comparing the experience of actual, real-life gunfighters I'd listen to the guy you've never heard of who survived 19 gunfights with hardened, violent criminals, including drawing on the drop, rather than the seedy legend who shot a lot of drunk cowboys. 90% of modern pistol defense comes from the techniques Bryce used to win so many fights and passed on to the FBI.

Aiming with a pistol in a defensive (defensive meaning that it is likely very close range and you are going to be in the Red Zone) situation is massively disadvantaging yourself. Standing and aiming is creating an easy target. You have to move. You have to make yourself hard to hit. Don't expect your hands to be at all steady if you have to kill another man. Don't expect to be able to think clearly. If there is range between you and your attacker you are probably not out of options, which is why most uses of a pistol for defense are at bad breath distance. I practice firing from retention too, because if I ever have to pull my pistol there is a good chance I will already be in a fight not of my making.

Take it for what it's worth. The two-way range is different.

 

[Pratt]

Here is how it works for me. Sights at all yardage. Once you know the powder charge and the patch thickness the feel of the stock and the feel of the trigger and the sight alignment all make the shot a one with the target.
Call it an experience. Yeah it may be a little hard to explain it .

 

[Whitworth]

(Off topic a bit) And it even works for swords. I apply this technique to fencing weapons …. close my eyes and extend the arm. The blade should be in line with my arm. If not, adjust the grip angle until it is.

En Garde Haven't fenced in 30+ years but hung on to my foil. It's been useful for decorative purposes with muzzle loaders Still hop to my feet and dance around sometimes when Errol Flynn's "Captain Blood" or something of the sort is on TV.

 

[45D]

En Garde Haven't fenced in 30+ years but hung on to my foil. It's been useful for decorative purposes with muzzle loaders Still hop to my feet and dance around sometimes when Errol Flynn's "Captain Blood" or something of the sort is on TV.

Ha!!! I wielded a Saber in college!!

Mike

 

[M. De Land]

The sights on most .44 pistols were regulated at ~75 yards. Take second to line up the sights, squeeze the trigger, and anyone who has conquered pistol fundamentals will be able to consistently hit the torso of human silhouette targets offhand. From a rest like a bench or a fence post most full-size .44s will make 6in groups or better, and I've seen a few folks who get under 3in with a tuned gun and a disciplined reloading method.

I'm sure there were some who practiced snap shooting, especially at close range. But any formal military training with a military revolver of that era would have included use of the weapon's sights. The fact that more than a few surving antiques have some kind of modified sight leads me to believe that many realized the advantage of a sight vs. snap shooting and had the gun modified for a closer range where they expected to use it. That said, a "belly button" hold with any of these old guns would also have put a round in the center of the torso at close range. There's no reason not to "see what you're shooting" even with the factory sights, just need to learn your gun's ballistics with a few targets and pick a point on a man accordingly, such as aiming at the belt on a closer threat knowing that whether it hits 2in high or 5in high, it's going to end in a shot to the chest.

Then you would not mind holding the target for me - at 200 yard

En Garde Haven't fenced in 30+ years but hung on to my foil. It's been useful for decorative purposes with muzzle loaders Still hop to my feet and dance around sometimes when Errol Flynn's "Captain Blood" or something of the sort is on TV.

Do you put on the "tights" when dancing around to Captain Blood ?

 

[Whitworth]

Do you put on the "tights" when dancing around to Captain Blood ?

Nah, gotta draw the line somewhere, blue jeans are always my uniform of the day.

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

For me, except from shooting from retention, it’s always Front Sight to Fight. You cannot ignore or overlook proper grip, sight alignment and sight picture. The round will hit where the sights are pointed. The mechanics of shooting never change if you want to be accurate. Speed comes with training.

There might be some who would “spray and pray”. That isn’t the best idea, especially when you are responsible for each round going down range. That luxury only exists on television and in movies.

Shooting paper is one thing. Engaging someone who is armed and intends to do you or your family harm is completely different.

A slow hit is better than a fast miss.

Always, front to fight.

 

[user 31232]

Yes

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Do we know this for certain? A lot of long instinctive shots were made with arrows from Pope, Young, Howard Hill, Fred Bear, Fred Eichler, etc.

Yes we have reports of how he did it, and he didn't just hit Tutt at 75 yards... he hit him in the heart at 75 yards.

It depends on the situation and the handgun involved. You can't use a sight on a pepperbox, for example, as their are none, neither are there on many of the boot pistols of the era. This is a .58 but could easily have been produced as a caplock, AND it's a screw barrel, meaning it's going to hit harder than it's patched relatives

With my cut down .44 there is no front sight, but it's meant for use at no more than 15 feet, and likely would've been used even closer. To avoid having it grabbed by a badguy, I'd need to fire from the hip. My 7" .44's or my 1858 Remington, yep I use the sights, if the targets are at 25 or more feet away

LD

 

[SOLANCO]

Front Sight?

My old axiom. Front sight. Press.
If you are not going to use the front sight you may as well just spray and pray.

 

[SOLANCO]

My old axiom. Front sight. Press.
If you are not going to use the front sight you may as well just spray and pray.

But many encounters occur at face to face, belly to belly range. The question you must answer is will you actually pull the trigger with your muzzle in his belly and his face so close with his eyes looking in yours and you can smell his last meal on his breath. Not every man can kill in hot blood, let alone cold.
If you contemplate or already carry concealed? Think hard and realistically about what you are willing to do. And what the ramifications will be. Most places, a justified shooting requires going through lots of expensive hoops.
Do you shoot to save your own life or that of any other innocent? Of course.
But this is 2023. Not 1959 or 1947 or 1929.
Back in the '60's a friend shot an intruder running away from his home. That was Georgia and on a military base. Judge acquitted but told my friend next time drag him back into the house. No judge will give that advice today.

 

[GYJ]

It depends on the situation and the range. I've done a lot of point shooting and thoroughly enjoy it. At one point tens of thousands of rounds a year. Which is how much it takes to get good at it. I can guarantee you that they were not doing that in the 1800's. Few did it until the mid-late 20th century.

I shoot a bare bow and can hit an apple at 30 yards. However, the term "instinctive aiming" as associated with traditional archery is a bit of a misnomer. While there may not be sights on the bow, the shooter sees the arrow and its relationship to the target. From experience, the mind calculates the required hold needed to hit the target. Its a bit like throwing a baseball or a fizzbee.

Any doubt of this will instantly be dispelled by trying "instinctive aiming" with your eyes closed. See how that goes.

I agree. There may not be sights but they are aiming. With a handgun, you're pointing, not aiming.

 

[M. De Land]

It depends on the situation and the range. I've done a lot of point shooting and thoroughly enjoy it. At one point tens of thousands of rounds a year. Which is how much it takes to get good at it. I can guarantee you that they were not doing that in the 1800's. Few did it until the mid-late 20th century.




I agree. There may not be sights but they are aiming. With a handgun, you're pointing, not aiming.

Heck I can't hit an apple 100 percent at 15 yards shooting instinctive or gap sighting and I make wood self bows. I need some one to watch/teach me and tell the hard truth what I'm doing or not doing correctly ! I don't think I'm plucking and keep by pull elbow straight and level, anchor at mouth corner and still let off a wild one periodically. Read some good books and keep trying but still no William Tell !
Handgun shooting is far easier for me but not quite as interesting.
I've never been in a gun fight but I can't help but think my hand gun prowess would be some what degraded with hot lead buzzing by my ears !

 

[CyrusP]

Distance, shooting purpose and firearm determines it for me. I am more an aimer than a pointer because I am a target shooter vs tactical shooter. For one, I am entirely too frugal to not aim. I don’t rapid fire except for CCW training/qualifying. I also tend to shoot handguns where distances start at 25 and quickly move to 100 yard gongs. Once I have something sighted in, that is. Aiming doesn’t mean you can’t do so quickly. It’s more indexing, anyway, an instructor told me. When I do my CCW quals, I know it’s some type of point shooting (indexing/knowing where your rounds are hitting even if sights aren’t aligned on target)

 

[CyrusP]

YES

My parents lived down the road from Front Sight before they sold the place.

 

[blushingmule]

...focus on the front sight; all else should be a blurred "picture".

Mule

 

[cynthialee]

Depends on the situation.
If I am casually hunting aim is everything.
If I see a coyote running through my property in the vicinity of my chickens, I get an instant to get it right. And most the time I do.