Does it bad to prime first then main charge?

[paulvallandigham]

Considering how fast confined powder explodes, I doubt that limiting the number of tacks is going to do anything regarding how an explosion is directed. 4 tacks will be just as Holding as a dozen. Perhaps if the "tacks" were locust needles, or wooden pegs, instead of any kind of metal, a claim could be made, but I doubt this as well. I have watched locust needles hammered through a 2 x 4 pine board, and I can't think of many woods that are tougher than those needles.

Keeping the stopper in the horn, and the horn away from fires are the best ways to avoid a horn exploding. :hmm: :thumbsup:

 

I have no idea where I read that article, it's been awhile and just came to mind as I was reading this post. Whether or not it's a practical application I suppose could be debated. It seemed logical to me.

Thanks for posting the pics. I really enjoy viewing the things of yesterday.

Chili,

The more research we do the more mis-information we find that use to be "the word" according to some. I'm amazed at how many will read a few articles on any given subject and then become deaf to any other information on that subject. Thanks for your thoughts, we are all hear to share and learn.

This site has some real interesting subject lines and everyone seems to listen and add to whatever is being discussed. That's a plus for Claude.

Later

Buck

 

[Zoar]

Regarding safety. I have heard some old timers tell some realm luu-luu's when it comes to dumb poor safety stiff from days gone by. I do not necessarily think people are less safe NOW than they were in 1960's or 1970's. I think they incidences of dumb, poor safety were about the same. The biggest problem now seems to be: arrogance, bullying, no-body-is-gonna-tell-me-nothin' attitude that seems to be at an all time high. Too many guys showing up at the range with a gun who have ego's the size of tree's with tough guy attitudes exhibiting inadequate safety practices. Some of the worst offenders---that I have seen with MY OWN eyes---were gun instructors/cops... They have all the safety training in the world. The problem is their ego's.

 

The biggest problem now seems to be: arrogance, bullying, no-body-is-gonna-tell-me-nothin' attitude that seems to be at an all time high.

I have been an NRA/NMLRA certified Range Officer since the late 60's. In the last few years we see more of what you say about attitudes. Probably more on the modern ranges than the muzzle loading side. Some of these kids (Not trying to start a fight, just fact) have watched to much TV. We see them step to the firing line holding their semi-auto on its side and blaze away. For most part they can't keep the rounds on a 5 foot archery target. One of our RO started to tell this young man what his problem was and I stopped him. "Let him be he knows what he's doing". I would rather have him not be able to hit anything if he ever shot at someone. :applause: :hmm: :bow:

 

[paulvallandigham]

There is no doubt that a lot of problems with safety today come from Egos, and Arrogance. TV, and movies have just as much an adverse effect on shooting safety and shooting skills today as they did back in the 1950s. I don't think its worse now, than it was back then.

I teach people of all ages to shoot handguns for self defense, and I find the same kind of things show up periodically with new students as you have mentioned. I let the student miss the target, and then ask the Dr. Phil, question: " How's that working for you???"

On only one occasion, when I was trying to teach another lawyer to shoot, and he just could not put his ego aside and listen, or watch, I put up a second target, let him shoot first, and then proceeded to shoot a very small group with a similar revolver at a similar range. We barely had enough evidence to count all 6 holes. He was impressed. I simply said, " This is why you are the student, and I am your instructor. Now, will you listen to me and take my advice, rather than try everything your own way? "

Later, I showed him different shooting styles and had him try all of them. I then told him that it was up to him to pick what felt the most comfortable to HIM. He expressed shock. He actually said," I thought you said I was to listen and follow what you told me to DO??" I told him that I had just shown him 3 different shooting techniques he could use. I had showed him how one of them works better in some situations, and the others have their merits in different situations. He needed to know all the techniques, so he could adopt the best for the situation he was in, and do it without hesitation, for any reason.

I then noted, " Notice I have not told you to use that cockamanie form that you came here with. Outside of a couple of feet, its inaccurate, and you won't hit anything. I will show you even better and faster forms to use when you are belly to belly with someone who is trying to kill you."

And I did, after he mastered some of the basics, first.

I think you gave your friend, the Range officer good advice when you stopped him from showing the man what he was doing wrong. An R.O. is generally not an instructor, unless there is only one shooter on the range. The guys that come to a public range and shoot handguns sideways deserve to waste ammo. Its actually a small price for them to learn how ineffective this technique, which seems to infest most movies, and now most TV scripts, is. We are a long way past "The Magnificent Seven" where James Coburn went into a Turret stance to shoot a bad guy off a horse at considerable distance with his Colt .45 Peacemaker.

 

[tg]

"I feel that horns are the safest way to carry powder"

Sounds good to me. I cannot fathom how a flask is safer than a horn and I would like to see any thing of an evidenciary nature to suggest that safety is the reason flasks were used instead of horns.I find it amazing that this question has gone five pages when a one word answer would suffice :hmm:

 

[gpeterson]

Hey JJ,

There's an old addage that probably most of us remember growing up; "Now don't go off half-cocked!" I understand that phrase came from the days of flint muskets and paper cartridges on the battlefield. One bit the cartridge's tail off, primed the pan, closed the frizzen and then dumped the cartridge powder, paper and ball down the pipe. Those muskets, in time, became battle weary.

The tumbler on a musket worn with battle fatigue could become quite a concern to the soldier. That worn half-cock notch could get tired enough to slip the sear out of the slot and spark the prime as the continental malitiaman was going for that second shot before retreating from the sea of red before him, leveling all those Besses.

As he dumped the charge and rammed the ball, he thought, maybe said out loud to his piece, "now don't go off half-cocked!" How awful. The fellow had enough to think about other than his own musket rendering him, "hors de combat".

It's pretty much a non-thought as far as loading a M.L. to most any of us here. It's prime after charging with the muzzle pointing in a completely safe direction. Can't think of any exceptions...except maybe a continental soldier on the line, back on the day. Good dicussion, JJ.

Keep 'em center,

reinert

 

[Coot]

Considering how fast confined powder explodes, I doubt that limiting the number of tacks is going to do anything regarding how an explosion is directed. 4 tacks will be just as Holding as a dozen. Perhaps if the "tacks" were locust needles, or wooden pegs, instead of any kind of metal, a claim could be made, but I doubt this as well. I have watched locust needles hammered through a 2 x 4 pine board, and I can't think of many woods that are tougher than those needles.

Keeping the stopper in the horn, and the horn away from fires are the best ways to avoid a horn exploding. :hmm: :thumbsup:

I tend to agree with Paul's thinking on this. (I say tend because I don't intend to sacrifice any of my horns to get proof :grin: ). When I was a kid, we used to be able to get firecrackers at corner vendors - two kinds of firecrackers - really good ones made in tight & strong cardboard like tubes and much cheaper locally hand made ones that were like a tiny toilet paper tube with loose BP inside and a wrapping of very thin paper - sort of like gift wrapping tissue - just twisted shut at the ends. Even with nothing but that twisted shut tissue paper to contain the blast, they made a good bang with a few grains of powder. A half pound or more of powder in a horn should make a much more impressive bang ..........................

 

[Twisted_1in66]

We always do add the paper from the cartridge as a charge into the barrell

It's always louder when you can ram paper, but you can't do that in Continental Line or BAR events because you are not allowed to use the ramrod. However, at the Yorktown event this weekend, the word is that we can ram paper for a firing demonstration as long as we are not doing opposing fire and I've certainly done it with other demonstrations that didn't feature opposing fire.

Funny thing about ramming the paper is that almost inevitably within about 3 shots or so someone will have to step out of line and go stomp out a smoking and smoldering piece of paper. "Watch your ash boys!"

Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:

 

[TFoley]

...That is why most ranges either have paid Range Officers present, or their rules require that when 2 or more shooters are present, One of them MUST act as the Range officer for the others.

My brother belongs to a club that requires all members to take training in Range Officer duties, before they can shoot on the range alone... days. :hmm:

Here in UK, where there has not been a shooting accident on a range since 1968, there have to be three shooters on a range bfore it can be used for live-firing - one of who MUST be qualified RCO. He cannot shoot until another RCO turns up to take over his duties.

Our club has one of the highest proportions of qualified RCOs of any club in the UK - of the 200+ membership, almost half are qualified in either nitro, black powder, or practical shotgun RCO duties, many in all three.

As for suspending a shooter from the club - that is VERY serious indeed, as ownership of firearms is dependent on also being a fully paid-up and 'attentive' member of a gun-club. Getting kicked out of the club could cost the miscreant his firearms licence and all his guns, and even a temporary suspension has to be officially notified to the relevant license-issuing authorities.

Thankfully, I have never seen this happen in the twelve years I have been with THIS club.

tac