Double ball loads

[DanL]

Hi y'all. I have read with interest some of your posts about a double ball load. I have a T/C manual that came with my brothers T/C flintlock hawken circa early 1970's (last century : that actually gives direction on double ball loads for deer. It suggests that one should use their standard powder load and patch each ball individually and simply stack them by loading the first ball as you normally would and then set a 2nd ball down on top of the first.

Years back, I have played with this load for fun in my .50 Hawken and it seems to shoot reasonably accurate at the range that I shot it (50 yds). The balls impact the target within 3 inches of each other consistantly. I never recovered the balls to see what shape they were in so I can't say anything about that. I also never put them through a chrony. The load does increase recoil however.

I could see if one were a roundball only shooter and wanted to put more "uumph", if you will, in their load, this could be a possibility.

I have never hunted with the load. One ball seems to do the trick for me.

DanL

 

[roundball]

Dan, having some TC Hawkens myself and collecting odds and ends TC manuals as I do, would you mind looking at that manual for a date?
I'm curious if I might have that particular vintage manual also, thanks, Bill

 

[Keith]

I'll state the blatantly obvious. If you try this make sure both balls are firmly seated. They, especially the top most one, could easily be an obstruction if not and cause your barrel to blow. It also seems to me a less than maximum charge is a real good idea.

 

[DanL]

Hi Roundball, I have looked through the manual for a date and have not found one as yet. I will however look again and holler back at you. What I do know is that I got a T/C hawken in the very early '70s and my brother got one very soon afterwards. I acquired mine from a family friend without the box and such. My brother acquired his from T/C and got all the paperwork. This manual was with his stuff.

By the way, Thanks for the ID on the lock.

DanL

 

[roundball]

There's usually some sort of little date code abbreviation on the back cover, at least during the recent 10-20 years, maybe not on the really old ones (05/75, 10/78, etc)

 

[Herb]

Danl- I built a .40 caliber woman's rifle (see photo section, "Carole's .40 flintlock"- and she would like to be able to hunt deer with it. Trouble is, the ball weight (93 grains) is too light to be legal. The game warden suggested double balling the charge. Finally tried it today in my 38" barreled .40 caliber Jacob Wigle flintlock. Used Goex 3F, .390 round balls with a .012 crush miked pillow ticking and Murphys Oil Soap and alcohol lube. Put a thin leather wad between the balls. Now, this was after chronographing and shooting for group five, six-shot groups with the same load, single ball, only varying the lube. Those 30 shots averaged 1773 fps with an average velocity spread of 53 fps. The double ball loads, tested at 50 yards from the bench, averaged 4.75" apart (one shot was a 7 " flier, torn patch). BUT- the velocity of four (double ball) shots was 1341 fps, spread 21 fps. They averaged 432 fps slower than single ball loads! I'll do some more testing on this, but prefer to find a conical to use. Edit- That was 40 grains of Goex 3F.

 

Two 177 grain roundballs = 354 grains. That's within the range of a T/C Maxiball (nice name for a bullet what?).
So I'd say the charge was plenty safe at 90 to 100 grains of 2fg black.
As had been mentioned the 2nd ball must be seated firmly on the 1st and the whole load seated firmly on the powder.
I don't see anything wrong with the double ball load that does not create an overload situation and if the accuracy for the intended range is adequate.
However I believe that here in Ohio the barrel MUST be loaded with a single projectile. This rules out multiple ball loads and buckshot.

 

[roundball]

Dan, thanks for sharing that info, that's one of their very early type owner's manuals with a picture of the percussion Seneca on it...would like to have one like that for sure.

In the next few years they kept that same format but showed a flintlock Hawken and a percussion Patriot pistol on the cover, and I have several of those.

Then they got completely away from featuring any firearms at all on the covers of their owner's manuals.

I was pleasantly surprised to see that they recommended 100grns Goex FFFg in a .45cal with two .440 balls...(my normal hunting load is 90grns Goex FFFg & .440 ball).
I'll try the double ball load sometime...might even hunt it just for grins.

 

[Keith]

However I believe that here in Ohio the barrel MUST be loaded with a single projectile. This rules out multiple ball loads and buckshot.

That's the same in NY and I think most states that don't allow buckshot would consider this illegal. Find out before you use it hunting. I think that I would prefer one projectile if a ball isn't satifactory for some reason I'd go with a conical. A single proectile will hit harder than the double loads individually, and be more accurate.
I am thinking particularily if you had one round go astray, say from hitting a branch, and then only one ball hits home or one strikes the deer in the gut. :m2c: That's just my opinion.

 

[54ball]

Hello,
Not meaning to sound like a renegade hunter but how are they going to find out. A- shoot game B- quickly load and shoot a blank.

 

Hello,
Not meaning to sound like a renegade hunter but how are they going to find out. A- shoot game B- quickly load and shoot a blank.
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Well good question.
I cant speak for others but here in Idaho they have you pull your load and if you don

 

[Keith]

Well, hunting is a game without referees, mostly. If you don't mind breaking the laws, and just do what you please I guess you can do that. To many people the point is not will I get caught if I do something wrong, but is it right to break the law?

 

[DanL]

OK guys, I think that the point/counterpoint about double ball loads will never be settled.

I posted the material to present information that T/C actually at one time gave suggestions as to how to double ball load. I have it in black and white from T/C's manual circa the early 1970's.

I appreciate the information that I get from this site and I put forth some info that I had. All information that I receive helps me to make decisions regarding my muzzleloading sport. I am now enjoying my 34th year in this fantastic muzzleloading sport.

DanL