double ball

[Wes/Tex]

For all we know "loaded for bear" could have been in reference to a double powder charge.

I've stayed out since I don't know for sure and don't recall specifically reading about it, but for some reason I have always been under the impression the term was used more for a double powder charge rather than a double ball. Guess the race is on to see who can find an actual quote. "And, they're off!" :thumbsup: :haha:

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

For all we know "loaded for bear" could have been in reference to a double powder charge.

I've stayed out since I don't know for sure and don't recall specifically reading about it, but for some reason I have always been under the impression the term was used more for a double powder charge rather than a double ball. Guess the race is on to see who can find an actual quote. "And, they're off!" :thumbsup: :haha:

Yessir,

I have stayed out of it myownself for the very same reason, but there are a couple posts in this thread that are leaning towards representing the "loaded for bear being a double ball load" reference as fact, this is how useless information becomes gospel.

Or carrying a big bore and a back up hawkig pistol?

Or it certainly could have referenced that.

 

[roundball]

Guess the race is on to see who can find an actual quote. "And, they're off!" :thumbsup: :haha:

First time I ever saw any reference to it was in one of Lyman's old reloading manuals from the 60-70's I think...and T/C's manual / load data charts originally showed those loads for .45/.50cal rifles...both sources contributing to the notion that 2XPRBs were not from some other planet in another universe.

Then either this or some other ML forum had a thread going on, talking about double ball loads being very dangerous, very inaccurate (the Lyman manual also said they were inaccurate), etc...and that was like throwing down the gauntlet for me as I didn't believe it, and took it up as a personal project.

Personally, I don't have a dog in the above fight...don't care if it was ever used by anyone else, used anywhere else, etc...just seemed like a good project to put an end to all the keyboard theory and speculation about their inaccuracy / ineffectiveness that was being bandied about, one way or the other.

And speaking for myself, from my own range & field tests I can say unequivocally that 2XPRB loads are extremely accurate out of my .40/.45/.50cal rifled Flintlocks and a .45cal 2XPRB was immediately lethal on a Whitetail I shot with it.

:thumbsup:

 

[Wes/Tex]

I agree, Roundball, you don't jump into anything without your own development to back up your findings. It's very possible the double-ball load is what they meant and it's pretty clear from you testing that it works. I give you high marks for testing these theories out and reporting your findings! :thumbsup:

 

[nkbj]

Did Lyman publish a photo of a double ball load leaving the muzzle?
Reason I ask is I'm curious about the inertia of that weight of lead creating expansion to fit the rifling. Yeah we know bullets do that. That's how come so many of the super accurate rifles of the 1800's were so accurate. But stacked ball?
Hmm, I'm gonna go dig out the old Lyman BP book.

 

[nkbj]

Yep, found it. The photo is of two .560" balls loaded with 120 grains FFg. The rear ball shows a flat front and cylindrical reforming on the outside diameter. And I remembered that with only one cup of coffee.
The photo caption says the accuracy was poor.

 

[roundball]

Probably be good to start another thread about the PRBs filling the grooves for accuracy...I disproved that with rock hard solid marbles and solid brass balls...also took a Whitetail with a solid brass ball, DRT. (And smoothbores don't have grooves, LOL)

These are once fired brass balls from my .58cal recovered from a foam rubber trap box...not a mark on them, and then reused one of them to kill that Whitetail.

 

[roundball]

I agree, Roundball, you don't jump into anything without your own development to back up your findings.
It's very possible the double-ball load is what they meant and it's pretty clear from you testing that it works.
I give you high marks for testing these theories out and reporting your findings! :thumbsup:

And like most of us do and share with each other, some of these projects are no small personal expense...and its rare indeed that any of us in the muzzleloading fraternity would charge money for sharing our test results.
IMO, forums are technical repositories for the free open sharing of findings & conclusions on every aspect of related subject matter

 

[coloradoclyde]

:thumbsup: