Double-Barreled Fowler

[Mike Brooks]

Boy, I was just going to ask what one of these beauts go for. Just wish there was something a little bigger then a 20. Be nice to find a 12 or 10.

Just curious though is that a double or single trigger on[url] gunbroker.com[/url]?

That isn't a bad price. It's a double trigger. One trigger for each lock. You will rarely ever find flint doubles larger than 18 bore. You do on occasion find a little bigger very late in the flint period, but then you're talking some real cash outlay to get one.

 

[paulvallandigham]

That has been my observaton over the years, drooling over museum pieces, and books about double barrel flint shotguns. I can't remember many 18 gauge guns, either, for that matter.

The real question is why would anyone want a double flint in a larger gauge? It makes the gun wider, heavier, and bulkier. It destroys the balance of these fine guns, and you really don't get a gun that can do anything more in the field than the finer balanced 20's.

Remember that these guns were still made without choke, so they were never intended to be used at 40 yards and beyond to take any kind of game. You could load more shot and powder in the 20 gauge to shoot ducks and geese, so you have more flexibility in a 20 ga. flinter than in a modern 20 ga. shotgun.

Its the presense of choke in modern guns that allows the larger gauges to be used for longer range shooting, not their gauge. The larger diameter barrel simply allows more shot to be loaded in a shorter amount of space, improving patterns by keeping the shot closer together than would happen shooting the same amount of shot in a 16 or 20 ga. gun, using the same choke.

If you want to see great patterns, check out an 8 gauge gun on the patterning boards, using 2 oz. of shot. ( That would be considered a top load for even the 10 gauge guns.) The gun will pattern similar to firing a 1 0z. load of shot ( 20 ga. magnum shot load) in a 12 gauge gun.

 

12's are quite common in contemporary flint sxs's I suspect due to the availability of barrels. I've seen the occational 10 as well. In period guns, I've come to the same conclusion as Mike. I've seen one 12g sxs, a William Smith in the Keith Neal collection, one 16g (again, a William Smith)both late 1820's, and one 16g by Sam & C Smith made in the 1830's. Other than that, all of the period flint sxs's I've come across (that I can recall) have been in that 18-20 bore size. I think there's a very good reason for all this. sxs flints don't lend themselves well to big bores as they become very wide and clunky. In the very late flint period, lock and breech designs changed provideing deep recesses therefore allowing larger bores to be used without creating excessive width throught the lock panels. William Smith and later Samual & Charles (whom I believe were Williams nephews) seemed to have made substantial progress in this direction and is likely why, the only big bore flint sxs's I've been able to find have come from them.

 

[Croppy Boy]

This was a 12 bore double flinter offered by Cliff Fuller of London a couple of years ago. As far as I can remember the price tag was around £2000. The locks and barrel were marked Fisher, London.

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The barrels were 30 inches long with an overall length of 46 inches.

 

[Dave K]

I have both an orginal 20ga. and an 18ga. The balance of these guns look right and feel right. I agree, though that larger they start to look a little huge across the breeches. Though, the one shown here in 12ga. looks very good. I do have a contemporary 16ga. that isn't bad, but it doesn't have the appeal in appearance that the smaller ga. have. I can't say there is any advantage to larger bores either. Another ga. that seems to be seen quite a bit in the flint period is the 24ga.

 

[Roy]

I like that bottom pic really shows how angled the lock plates are. I just recieved 16 bore sxs to be built one day, when I give myself the time lol. Anyway thanks for the pics :thumbsup:

 

[Mike Brooks]

I've seen later period guns with the locks at even a more severe angle. The Smiths were famous for that.
Even higher grade single barreled guns had the inset breeches in the late flint period.

 

[Roy]

This is what I have now

I'll probably be buggin you with a ton of questions :haha:

 

[Leonredbeard]

Roy,
That seems a bit of a daunting task, but please don't let that stop you! I want to see the finshed product.

At Dixon's I once saw a modern built 9 bore doubled flinter. The locks were not rebated nor angled in at the back. And it WAS wide! However, I believe it would have been shootable.
volatpluvia

 

[Roy]

I do plan to angle them in, I just need to figure out how much and to get both sides even.

 

[Mike Brooks]

What guage? How wide are the breeches now? Cartridge barrels? They sure are pretty! I'd ditch that trigger and RR pipe. Those are off of a late period percussion gun. I've even held the gun they were copied from. You may be able to modify them some what...I don't know. Maybe keep the triggers and ditch the plate?
Let me know if I can help.

 

Roy, you should consider going with tapered breeches as those locks are really unsuitable for recessed breeches. Interesting breeching. I see you'll have to make a rib extention. The faux rib is usually an integral part of one of the plugs. The thing with useing cartridge barrels is that you have that flareing for the chambers. Not TOO noticeable when the gun's all made but adds another 1/8" or so to the width. I agree with Mike, make your own trigger set and thimble. Looking forward to watching the project progress.

Cody

 

[Joel/Calgary]

Cody, shortly after I got my contemporary 16ga double (inset chambered breeches & angled L&R Manton locks), I saw its near-twin, an original 16ga by a Scottish maker (cannot recall his name) at the Calgary gun show in 2001 or '02. Mine seems graceful and handy to me, but I've never handled any smaller-bore flint originals. On the other hand, there's a 26ga percussion HBC trade double I fell in love with but the owner won't part with it.

One of my hunting partners has a contemporary 12ga flint double with neither recessed breeches nor angled locks, and one really notices the width. That doesn't seem to interfere with his taking geese with it, though.

Joel

 

[Roy]

What guage? How wide are the breeches now? Cartridge barrels? They sure are pretty! I'd ditch that trigger and RR pipe. Those are off of a late period percussion gun. I've even held the gun they were copied from. You may be able to modify them some what...I don't know. Maybe keep the triggers and ditch the plate?
Let me know if I can help.

Been away for the weekend...
anyway Its a 16 gauge and the breech is 2.241" wide, has a 5/16" hole drilled 2.5" deep.

yep cartridge barrels, and who ever breeched them did a perfect job.

 

[Roy]

I could use help on the design of the trigger plate and RR :thumbsup:

Probably should move all this to the builders bench. Apparently there is a piece of European walnut making its way to me too :grin: :v

 

[Croppy Boy]

Here are three French doubles in my possession. They are 0.60 inches in the bore which as far as I know makes them 22 gauge. I've never fired them as the inside of the barrels are not great, anyway, I don't think you can get cards and wads for that gauge. For some reason the French were inclined to make the front trigger much shorter than the other. Another thing they were inclined to do was put a pillar in the front of the trigger guard.

Click on the picture for slide show.

 

[paulvallandigham]

OF COURSE YOU CAN GET WADS AND CARDS FOR THAT GAUGE.

All you need to do is contact Circle Fly Wads. You might also check any supplier of wads, like TOTW, or Dixie. Sometimes they carry the odd sizes, too.